Wanting to write my own PMM software....

[VorTechS]

....does anyone know how the damn thing works internally?

I've had a brief look around the two phatbox partitions and one thing that annoys the crap out of me, is that the audio files are placed in a mirror image directory structure [within reason] of the source files.  I'd rather they were just stuck in one place.

There are a number of bugs in PMM that frustrate me on a daily basis and having reported them months ago, have had assurances from Phatnoise that they're being looked at.  So, I'm of the decision it's be quicker for me to write my own version.

I know that there is Phat4X which doesn't appear to be being worked on [I've not had anything usable from the downloads], so I am planning to start my own manager software writing.

Does anyone have any useful info/contributions about how/where the index files are generated, how the plugins work - or would anyone like to get involved...?

Initially at this stage it will be a Windows .NET development. [I know, I suck... but it's the only thing I know]

[rob_hutton]

"Great" about time we had some development on the software side of things.

[VorTechS]

I've actually started this! Yay!
I've also done a little analysis work and have found out the following:

1) The .DB files are SQLLite 2.1 data files - although it would appear SQLLite 2.1 is a lot older now!

2) In theory the DMS can support profiles, which almost seems a bit pointless as you can't use the Keg to switch between profiles - but perhaps the new Phatnoise devices can...?

3) Not all files are plain text, although most are - I guess this is because of SQLLite.

I've managed to write something that will detect the DMS presence and load the default profile information, but I need to concentrate on some real work for now.  I'll try and get something to read the playlists tomorrow.

I could use some help on SQLLite 2.1, seems the SQLLite site doesn't have any installers for this... and I am a bit wary about loading a more recent version with live cart. data.  So if anyone can track down a d0ze version of this it would be appreciated.

If there's any other info. people think I should have, lemme at it!

[nijel888]

I cant help you with the software you want to write but I can give a tip for that annoying folder structure.
First copy your music with whatever folder structure you want manually to the DMS, then build your playlists in Phatnoise Media Manager pointing to the files already in DMS. That way you have your files the way you want and PB knows where to find them.

[judb]

Some work has been done on this stuff already.. phat4x is the linux version, phatmac is the mac OSX version... I would check in those forums (make sure you set your search date range) and you may find some interesting stuff there.

Also there are a lot of posts in the DMS and PMM areas about stuff like sqlite and PMM issues that may be helpful for you.

[VorTechS]

Thanks judb, there appears to only be one thread referencing SQLLite - but that looks useful
I've located a .NET ADO provider for SQLite so am looking into using that.

My guess [although I need to prove it] is that SQLite is only used to store the media info. and is probably not used by the Phatbox/Keg at all, meaning that it's entirely possible to implement a later version for data synch.

I actually have some base classes now that using the PBX and m3U files to display an accurate representation of the DMS contents, as far as the Phatbox/Keg data is concerned - ie, the stuff that gets displayed during playback.  

All in all it's been useful to show just how crap PMM is - and also highlight a 'preserve my DMS cartridge' issue.

[VorTechS]

So I have done a little bit of work on this new software today...!  

I have some base classes which bind to a DMS profile and read the PBXs and M3Us for album information.
I have designed the app. so that it will make use of a unified location to store media on the PC, and [eventually] to the DMS, by profile.

So by default audio will be stored in:  

PC: <application path>\Audio_<Profile Name>
DMS: /dos/data/Audio<Profile Name>

I have a very basic GUI application using the base classes which list the DMS contents (albums + tracks) and also displays a synch. transfer progress window.

Some screenshots can be found here:

http://vortechs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dms/profilewarn.PNG
http://vortechs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dms/firststart.PNG
http://vortechs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dms/synchprogress.PNG
http://vortechs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dms/dmslist.PNG

The table structure is in place for a new SQLite database - all one database rather than lots of different ones, which the application creates at present in the application directory [it would be destined for the DMS but I aint risking anything at the moment].

Well it passed the time anyway....  8-)

[judb]

I am pretty sure, as I said in another thread you posted (just replied to it a minute ago) that I think the SSA modes use the databases but I could be wrong.

if you have a keg and don't have the VIOT it may not be a big deal if you consolidate everything into one file but I am afraid it will break SSA / VIOT for other users.

[VorTechS]

I have SSA / VIOT and the album/genre/artists folders have a whole bunch of IDX files...so I think you are right, but there are also separate .db files for these two.

I'll take a look into them and drop the schemas to check them out.  I have a complete backup of my original DMS so I can easily restore if things get trashed.

I certainly don't plan to trash the PM databases either - merely use my own for better management of the mediia, I'll leave the original PM databases alone!  ID SSA/VIOT is using these additional DBs, then i'll have my app. back them up before amedning them.

Shame I'm using a USB cradle and not USB 2.0 one - it's gunna take a long time to back up the DMS into my synch. irectory!

[judb]

Oh you are right, I totally forgot about the idx files..

those are what are used for SSA/VIOT not the DB files.. I dont think they included a SQLlite database client in any phatbox software update

[VorTechS]

In the root of PHTDATA, there are DB files for albums, genre, artist and tracks.  Not sure if this is for PMM or SSA/VIOT.

I'm a bit surprised by the tracks one to be honest, maybe between 3.5 and 3.9 PMM has moved from a single database to multiples?  Or perhaps the pnrdbrw.db actually has each of those attached?

I think the IDX files are supplemental to DB files, it's the standard filename for an index file.  As for a client, you don't really need a 'client' from what I can tell.  The code I'm writing has it's own SQLite .NET wrapper - no sign of the EXE.

Anyways at some point today I'll hopefully have a basic Synch to DMS process written, I'm just going to do a full run of a synch of the media from the DMS to prove what I've done so far.

Last night I had to make some minor modifications to the bass class, so the bass class has a windows form that can be inherited which will provide the [at present basics] for skinning taken from one of my other applications.  

This means that unlike PMM, my application will be skinnable [to a degree], and will include a skin designer!
Although I'm well off anything worth looking at, I'll be happy to take beta tester registrations now

[slvr32]

ummm... I know this thread has a windows app spin right now, but would anyone like to work on a linux based PMM alternative (too)?  my own preference is to keep it WM (i.e. not tied to GNOME/KDE/other) and distribution (Debian, RedHat, etc...) neutral when possible... although I'm not opposed to using specific UI toolkits (QT, Gtk+, etc...), building on the CLI stuff @ http://phatbox.sixpak.org/phatbox/linux.phtml

any interest... or linux hackers floating around here?  

edit: sorry, just found the Phat4X linux PMM thread... i'll take a look at that...