Author Topic: Phatnoise Cradle Help!! (Read 23409 times)

thisonefoo · « **on:** March 23, 2007, 09:09:48 am »

Alright guys.. I've searched around Phathack a bit and couldn't find much information with my specfic case. Now I'm sick and tired of trying to figure out what the problem with the cradle and cartridge is on my own. Here's the problem..

I have the original Phatnoise software CD - it's on the computer.. When I access the DMS cartridge - it doesn't read for some odd reason. The USB is plugged in and the cradle is getting power (hence the red light). I updated the software via their site, but still nothing.

The reason why I don't think it's the cartridge is because.. well, the Phatnoise being in the car works perfectly. It plays music off the cartridge and all, but the cradle has just been sitting around - I just haven't had time to update it until now. Help please?! What's the problem!! Thanks in advance..

And the Phatnoise is going into this:

VorTechS · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:37:18 am »

A couple of questions:

1) What Operating System are you running
2) Which Cradle do you have? [take a look on the underside and you should see the part number]

thisonefoo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2007, 06:18:49 pm »

Quote from: VorTechS on March 23, 2007, 09:37:18 am

A couple of questions:

1) What Operating System are you running
2) Which Cradle do you have? [take a look on the underside and you should see the part number]

Sorry about that!

1) Windows XP Home Edition SP2
2) The cradle is the USB 2.0 version. As far as the part # portion goes, it is USB2 rev.

S80_UK · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:18:06 pm »

Can you hear the disk drive spin up when you put the DMS in the cradle? Does the red light come on? Any activity (even slightly) on the green light?

If the drive does not spin up, then can you check if the cradle power supply is still OK? Also, many cradles suffer from a very poor switch contact when the DMS is inseterted. It's not a proper switch - it's a bent piece of metal that makes contact with a pad on the circuit board when you put the DMS in. Sometimes the pad gets covered in dirt or an oxide coating. They may need a clean - but be careful - the springy contact is easily broken.

If the drive does spin up, this could be a number of things (most likely Windows related). You already tried a later version of the software (it sometimes works though), or you could uninstall and then reinstall the software that you have, or you could try a different USB socket (surprising, but that can often fix drive recognition problems).

thisonefoo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2007, 11:38:48 pm »

Actually, no, I can't hear the disk drive spin up on the DMS. What would that mean?

And yes, the red light comes on. The power is in and on because when the DMS is inserted (while the computer is on), the red light comes on then and Windows gives me that icon saying, "This device can perform faster." Although I know it'll be at the slower USB speed, that icon indicates it is actually being read by the computer. Afterwards, I'll try to open that Phatnoise Music Manager (is Media Manager better?) and go to the DMS, but no green lights EVER come on.

Also, how would one clean the little metal rod inside the cradle? Some alcohol?

Thanks for the advice everyone.. I am loving this community already!!

S80_UK · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2007, 01:00:31 am »

The fact that the red light coming on means that the switch contact is working, so don't worry about cleaning it. And the other messages suggest that Windows is seeing the USB to IDE controller chip in the cradle OK.

The fact that the drive is not spinning up is a problem, however.

Possibilities that I can think of (probably investigate in this order)...

1) Dirt on the connector to the DMS
2) Bent contact on the connector on the DMS
3) The DMS not pressed fully down
4) A soldering fault on the circuit board in the cradle
5) Some other fault on the circuit board, but I think the drive should spin up if it gets power
6) An intermittent connection inside the DMS that happens to be OK in the Phatbox but not in the cradle

Take care to check for damaged pins or contacts before trying to push the DMS down. When you do, you should feel that it engages quite positively.

The circuit board in the cradle is quite easy to take out - so when you have exhausted other options, you could try taking out the four screws in the base, then removing the board. Take a good look with a magnifying class for bad joints etc. Then try connecting board to DMS when out of the case - maybe they don't connect completely when in the case for some reason.

After that, I'm out of ideas...

Good luck!

thisonefoo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2007, 05:59:57 am »

1) Can I just use a cotton swab to wipe it clean? Tried it, but no luck.
2) Is this the connector on the bottem most piece that the DMS goes into? Looks like conn. are solid. Like I said.. this worked before - I just haven't used it in a while.
3) I don't want to force it, but it seems to be all the way down.
4) Sorry, but how would I be able to look at soldering faults?
5) Again, what could I be looking for?
6) Would opening up the DMS be easy?

Upon checking out and opening up the USB - I found something out that is very interesting. On the circuit board, there were finger prints - Yeah, you guessed it.. it's been opened before. I tried to wipe it clean with an ear swab b/c I didn't know what else to use. Upon looking at the board itself, theres this creamish, whitish kind of residue (no, not that guys - haha!) left on the board. The only way I can describe it is that it looks like the stuff that comes out of batteries if one were to charge an un-rechargable battery. Maybe I'll take a pic..

Thanks again everyone - You don't know how much I appreciate it!

markbowen · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2007, 07:08:45 am »

Notwithstanding what you found when you opened the cradle, I am inclined to suspect a connection or driver issue. You wrote that you got the message "This device can perform faster." This indicates that you have either plugged the USB 2 cradle into a non-USB 2 port, or Windows for some reason "thinks" it is just a USB 1.1 port.

Do you know for certain whether your computer has USB 2 ports? If you only have USB 1.1, Windows XP is not going to load the USB2 driver, which is what the cradle needs to operate properly. You may have to download the USB 1.1 driver for the cradle to function (http://www.phatnoise.com/downloads/ISD_setup_5_04.exe).

If you know you have USB 2, but have plugged the cradle into a port on the front of the computer, try plugging the cradle into one of the ports in the back. (This assumes you have a desktop computer, otherwise never mind.) Many devices, particularly storage, are picky about where they are connected.

If you have USB 2 and nothing else works, it could still be a driver issue. You may need to get into your Device Manager and sort out which driver XP is using for USB. In most cases the XP driver installs by default, but depending on your motherboard chipset, there may also be drivers by Intel, VIA, Ali, etc. Certain drivers work better than others. (I can explain in more detail but first try the steps above.)

thisonefoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:31:15 am »

Sorry I haven't updated you guys in the past few days..

Well, the problem still isn't solved. I believe I do have the 1.1 USB, but I don't mind waiting the extra little bit. I tried the cradle on another computer with the 2.0 USB (I would think because it didn't give me the '..Perform faster..' on that computer) and the cradle still didn't work. I took the cradle apart and mentioned that there were little small white spots, almost as if it was the white stuff that comes out of a battery or something. Can there be something wrong with the board on the cradle?

Can you please get into a bit more detail as to where I'd find which driver I have supporting my system? Man.. sorry for all the questions guys.. thank you VERY much!!

thisonefoo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2007, 07:40:55 am »

Another question.. Will the Kenwood cradle work on my 'non-Kenwood' marked Phatnoise? Just curious if theres any difference or anything..

sbingner · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2007, 11:39:39 am »

There was a really old cradle that needed drivers from the phatnoise website I think, but as far as what will work in them... they're all the same with the exception that the 160GB drive didn't seem to work properly in the USB1.1 cradle

thisonefoo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2007, 05:17:57 am »

You guys will not believe this.. an UPDATE!!

You guys know I have been battling this damn USB Cradle from the Phatnoise. Well, I ordered another Phatnoise kit.. The new cradle plugged in, lit up, and worked PERFECTLY. I put my old DMS in and it read perfect and everything. I put the old cradle back into the comp, SAME comp, and put the DMS in. What the hell.. it starts WORKING! So there must have been something about another USB Cradle that triggered it to work.. I don't know.. do you guys know? All I know is that after the new one worked, the one work plugged in and worked perfectly..

VorTechS · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2007, 08:22:55 am »

Only reason I can give you is that the driver may have gotten corrupted somehow, and plugging in the new cradle forced windows to do a driver update.

sbingner · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2007, 12:07:26 pm »

That is probably it -- if this happens again, I'd suggest going into device manager (devmgmt.msc) and DELETING the entries for the drive then removing and reconnecting it...

thisonefoo · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2007, 07:59:00 am »

I actually looked into it a bit further, and although my last post was valid.. it wasn't necessarily the case. Here comes another weird part.

Okay, well my brother has the original power supply for the USB somewhere in his room. I grabbed another one from the zip drive thinking it was going to work because it plugs right in. At the same time.. when the DMS is inserted, the red light is ON, but the green does not.. that MUST mean it has power right? True, but oh so WRONG. I got the original power adaptor from the new Phatnoise kit that runs on 12 volts. The one that was on our zip drive (that still plugs in and shows red = power), was a 7 volt power supply. I guess I really needed the extra 5 volts to power the DMS up because I plugged the old cradle in and it powered right up!!

sbingner · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2007, 11:05:10 am »

Yes, you would need the proper voltage... lol...

thisonefoo · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2007, 03:32:41 am »

Quote from: sbingner on April 15, 2007, 11:05:10 am

Yes, you would need the proper voltage... lol...

haha.. It took me allllllll this time just to figure that out.

I guess all along, I thought that power supplies had different plugs for different voltage supplies. I'm glad it worked out now that, thanks to all who helped me!!! Now what do I do with an extra Phatnoise kit..

S80_UK · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2007, 05:56:51 pm »

Quote from: thisonefoo on April 17, 2007, 03:32:41 am

I thought that power supplies had different plugs for different voltage supplies.

It's a common misconception. There are two or three very common DC plugs (and many other rarer ones) - they can vary enormously in the voltage and current carried and also in polarity. To say the least, there is plenty of scope for things going up in smoke. You can count yourself lucky that things still work

Quote from: thisonefoo on April 17, 2007, 03:32:41 am

Now what do I do with an extra Phatnoise kit..

Well, there's eBay, or the Buy and Sell forum here - or get another car - or keep it as a spare. If you do the latter - get it patched so that you can use any hard drive when you need to use it.

thisonefoo · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2007, 04:50:15 am »

Well thank you very much man! I am still lucky things still work, but I think we can safely say that using a lower voltage power supply for this cradle was okay though.. wouldn't you? I could see it the other way around with a higher voltage use than what it came with causing problems, but not a lower voltage one.. Let me know if I'm wrong!

As far as selling it.. I saw the classifieds in here.. and I may put it up in here. But aren't very many of you guys in the UK? Sorry if that's an idiotic question.. I would've swore I saw it in here before.

VorTechS · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2007, 05:34:08 am »

I know a few of us are UK, and a few other Europeans - but I think in the main most people here will be U.S.

The Phatbox/Kenwood Keg was never really advertised here in the U.K. so it's only the minority of people who know about it. I forget how I managed to stumble across it, but it was on the net - and I went out looking for a CX910 on the high street. That was about 2 years ago. At the time I was quoted £999 for a 710, and AFAIK the CX910 never made the streets.

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Author Topic: Phatnoise Cradle Help!! (Read 23409 times)