Results of two tests

[para]

Exactly. What I mean is I wanna dump the complete DMS and be able to restore it regardless what has happened (includes repartitioning, hex editing, shreding, wiping, of course nothing physical) to it! This way I could play around with it without being anxious to kill it - which would mean a costly return to Phatnoise...

[AndyMan]

have you actually run the phatbox formatter... it repartitions as well!

and yes... my DMS has been repartitioned

[A543]

Phatnoises bootable DMS repair disk seems to set up the partitions correctly to avoid overwriting the key sectors.  Other partitioning programs may not be so nice.  I agree that a backup and restore (of at least the key sectors) should work. No I haven't tried it, but I'm very close to attempting it.

[para]

Uh, good luck
How are you going to do it? Just using dd?

Thanks

[todd1010]

I've used the Phatnoise repartitioning program quite a while back. It was probably 2 years ago and I don't remember why I needed to do it, but it worked fine.

[A543]

the only thing  you have to do is file copy (BUT Include the invisible files and directories)

AndyMan,
I don't seem to have any hidden files or directories on my DMS.   Can you tell me about what's hidden on yours?

Has anyone else found any hidden files or folders?

[AndyMan]

There is a directory called

"System Volume Information" it's system and hidden but it contains multiple directories apparently containing what appear to be restore points...

[para]

Well, that's Windoze! As soon as you hook up the DMS to a Windoze PC it'll create that directory for you. Isn't that nice of Bill?! Nothing the PB will ever use...

Para

[balle]

There is a directory called "System Volume Information" it's system and hidden but it contains multiple directories apparently containing what appear to be restore points...

This directory is not relevant to PhatBox, it is made by Windows when you have had the DMS in it's docking.
Either you are using Windows 'System restore' function, or you have deleted files from the DMS from windows explorer, which then has made this directory to hold the recycler.

[judb]

Thats a windows XP feature that has nothing to do with the keg/phatbox.  All your drives have that if you have system restore enabled.  

Right click on my computer and select properties, you can disable system restore on the system restore tab and reboot, you should then be able to remove that folder from the DMS.

EFB!!

[Vince]

can't find the video playback or game emulation on my music keg ?  

It's in the new PhatBox that's going into the GM "cross-over sport vans" soon.

[para]

Vince, there're so many other interesting questions raised in this thread and you answer just that one...  

[Vince]

Vince, there're so many other interesting questions raised in this thread and you answer just that one...  

Well, you wouldn't want me to violate my NDA, would you?

[judb]

Well, you wouldn't want me to violate my NDA, would you?

HA, no we wouldnt want to get you fired or sued or anything.

Speaking hypotheticaly, is it possible that phatnoise will open up the phatbox in the future to the community to further the development of features and what not?

I recall a discussion on the phatnoise forums a long time ago about file formats that the phatbox doesnt support and you said something to the effect that you couldnt spend time on them since they wouldnt sell more boxes / be widely used.  

That of course makes perfect sense, but whats the harm in allowing the phatnoise phanboys waist our own time on getting nintendo audio files to play back on the phatbox?


Edit:

Or say update the flac decoder to work with vorbis tags?  Although I have a feeling that you have had to do some customizations to the decoders to make things run smoothly on the limited horsepower of those boxes.

[Vince]

Does a new FLAC file with the new tags not play at all on the PhatBox?  As far as I understood, the problem was properly getting the tags to put into the database, which is all done on the desktop.  Look at the PMM hacking section for ways to write those files yourself.

I've already mentioned that there were no modifications to the FLAC and other open source decoders used.  It's either fast enough out of the box (FLAC,OGG), or not (MPC).

The problem with allowing everybody to hack on the PhatBox is in DRM.  It's basically an question of allowing either hacking or DRM playback.  It's very hard to do both.  Look at a system like the Empeg.  Users can replace the kernel, and run any program they want on that.  That makes it good for hacking (though it's still hard to add other decoders, it took years for the Ogg decoder to be added after it was available), but you'll never be able to licese DRM playback for it, since any owner can put in a kernel to capture the unencrypted stream.  PhatNoise took the option of allowing DRM (audible, WMA someday?).  I personally would have chosen allowing hacking.  Ideally, a solution would be user configurable to allow hacking, or DRM.  It would be technically difficult to do this securily, and even if you came up with something that worked, you could explain it to whomever's licensing you the codec until you're blue in the face, but the'd just hear that there was some way for users to hack the system, and wouldn't work with you.

The funny thing is either way you choose, you've either upset the hackers, or the people who want to play DRM protected music.  It's just so hard to please everybody!

[judb]

Does a new FLAC file with the new tags not play at all on the PhatBox?  As far as I understood, the problem was properly getting the tags to put into the database, which is all done on the desktop.  Look at the PMM hacking section for ways to write those files yourself.

I've already mentioned that there were no modifications to the FLAC and other open source decoders used.  It's either fast enough out of the box (FLAC,OGG), or not (MPC).

The problem with allowing everybody to hack on the PhatBox is in DRM.  It's basically an question of allowing either hacking or DRM playback.  It's very hard to do both.  Look at a system like the Empeg.  Users can replace the kernel, and run any program they want on that.  That makes it good for hacking (though it's still hard to add other decoders, it took years for the Ogg decoder to be added after it was available), but you'll never be able to licese DRM playback for it, since any owner can put in a kernel to capture the unencrypted stream.  PhatNoise took the option of allowing DRM (audible, WMA someday?).  I personally would have chosen allowing hacking.  Ideally, a solution would be user configurable to allow hacking, or DRM.  It would be technically difficult to do this securily, and even if you came up with something that worked, you could explain it to whomever's licensing you the codec until you're blue in the face, but the'd just hear that there was some way for users to hack the system, and wouldn't work with you.

The funny thing is either way you choose, you've either upset the hackers, or the people who want to play DRM protected music.  It's just so hard to please everybody!

So are you saying that it would be mutally exclusive to allow us to upgrade the drives ourselves (hax0rz!) using a phatnoise tool and having DRM abilities?  

Wait.. let me rephrase the question.. in order to bless or whatever you wish to call it, a drive for the keg / pb it would render ineffective any DRM on the box?

Being that right now Audible is the only DRM that I know of that works on the keg / phatbox and I dont use that, i would GLADLY PAY to get rid of it with an open firmware to use whatever the heck drive I want.

I want an all FLAC based playback box with huge storage... thats the whole reason I am even bothering with this...

[Vince]

No, I'm saying it's mutually exclusive to allow DRM playback and user hacking of the software on the system (e.g. adding another decoder).

"Blessing" the hard drive is unrelated to DRM playback.  All I can say about that is I was not involved in that decision, and don't speak enough marketing/business to really understand it.

[judb]

Fair enough.

That tells me that barking up the pkeysa.e tree wont get me much closer to the drive keying though (hopefully your being straight with me on that)

I suppose the marketing thought process is something not unlike the southpark underpants gnomes.  I hate marketing people.

Gnome 1: This is where all our work is done.
Kyle: So what are you gonna do with all these drives you lock?
Gnome 1: Locking Drives is just phase one. Phase one: Lock Drives.
Kyle: So what's phase two?
    [Silence]
Gnome 1: Hey, what's phase two?!
Gnome 2: Phase one: we Lock the drives.
Gnome 1: Ya, ya, ya. But what about phase two?
    [Silence]
Gnome 2: Well, phase three is profit. Get it?
Stan: I don't get it.
Gnome 2: (Goes over to a chart on the wall) You see, Phase one: Lock Drives, phase two-
    [Silence]
Gnome 2: Phase three: profit.
Cartman: Oh I get it.
Stan: No you don't.
Kyle: Do you guys know anything about corporations?
Gnome 2: You bet we do.
Gnome 1: Us gnomes are geniuses at corporations.

edit: Vince, this is a general marketing jab so nothing personal.

[para]

Nice one judb!

@Vince: thanks for providing that insight. That's at least a bit clearer... But you're right, it would be very clever to let the user decide (as a hidden/advanced option) which way he/she wants to go. Have yourself DRM or an open platform. Licensees should not be deterred by that solution as it won't compromise their DRM restrictions...

Para