CD Text out via serial to LCD?

[eisman]

I searched the forums, but haven't seen any discussion on this. Has anyone looked into outputting CD text via the serial port mod on a phatbox to a serial LCD screen?  Crystalfontz a nice LCD display that would match my 99 Audi A4 interior lighting well.



I am concidering getting a Kenwood aftermarket HU just so I can get song display, but this would be a much cheaper solution.  Now if I can just figure out how to get Sirius integrated with the OEM Concert HU, I'd be set and not have to go with a full carputer.

CrystalFontz.com

Thanks
eisman

[judb]

The problem with serial port support in the kegs / phatboxes that don't have a port already made into the case is..
we would have to write something to send text data to the serial port, which would involve rewriting phatd and perhaps 51d ... and some chips would be required to get proper signaling to make the serial port active .. so a daughter card would have to be designed and built at some cost.. the case would have to be cut up.. not an easy mod for most users if we just posted schematics.

It would be a cool mod but not exactly a feasable one I am afraid.

First thing we need to do is replace the phatbox software (phatd and 51d ) to be more flexible and open code.  If you want to help with that we could use the assistance.

[az1324]

I'm going to recommend the traffic pro firmware again.  I may as well make it my mantra around here.  Using a small microcontroller and that firmware, it is possible to use that lcd you posted for display and full control of the phatbox using the joypad.  Then just hook up the audio out to an aux in on your system and you're good to go.  

[eisman]

I am going to look into this further.  This is a nice cold weather project.

[Johnny]

You could always use a kenwood FM-mod (KCA-R71FM), it has full control, supports VIOT, its got audio outs if you don't want to use the FM interface, only a single line LCD though, but it works and you don't need to mess around to get it to work.

I recently put one into a friends car with a keg and as when the FM mod is switched on it disengages the aerial, its very clear, no hissing, no interference, I thought the quality would be useless, but was pleasantly surprised, didn't bother hooking up the audio outs directly it just didn't seem worth it, just stuck with the FM signal.

It cost me about £80.

[klobbermeister]

I am going to look into this further.  This is a nice cold weather project.

Keep us posted, as I would be interested in doing something like this as well...

[STiDriver]

Instead of rewriting core PhatNoise services could an additional service be added that could poll somewhere in the OS to see what is currently playing?  Is there a an exec that can be called that displays the current status?  Or have we already looked for it and not found it?  

[judb]

I highly doubt that you could make this work.

The tag information is not read out of the individual files being played by the decoders, instead they are read by phatd out of the database of files / playlists / artists / genere / etc ...  the data gets passed along to the 51d which IIRC sends info to the head unit via the cable connected to it for audio and controls. (changer interface cable)

So short of hacking that communication process or turning up logging and watching the log file phatd creates for song changes and getting the info from there (which may not have all the data you want without logging way too much and filling up phtsys) or reading the id3 tag when playback begins using a custom frontend script for the playback files (which would be resource intensive and likely cause playback issues, like skipping etc due to buffer underruns).

So again, I don't think its a workable idea or I think phatnoise would have come out with something for these other head units a long time ago on their own.  Best of luck to you though.

[zero cool]

How does the kenwood firmware send the text to the HU? what is different about that firmware that the others dont have?

I can fab up some small boards with a PIC microcontroller on them etc. I have already been looking at these devices to be used as cd changer code translators. that way a phatbox could be used on say....a Nakamichi HU!


Zc

[judb]

Well, as I understand it, the 8052 controller inside the phatbox is connected to the external interface along side the pins that get routed to the DAC for audio signal.  Depending on the firmware loaded a few things happen.

1.  The output level gets set on the DAC
2.  The 8052 switches signaling for its connection to the head unit type

Kenwood uses, IIRC, the M-Bus protocol, which has specific coding for CD Text, FF, RW, Next / Previous track, Disc Up, Disc Down, Pause / Play ...

What you are talking about doing sounds really sweet.. I'd love to have a way to hook my phatbox up to an alpine or any other format HU potentially.. however I am not sure how you would deal with things like voltage settings for output from the DAC so as not to over / under drive the inputs on whatever Head Unit you were translating to / from.

It might be easier to either decode the format of the 8052 software to make new interface support or get phatnoise to release some kind of SDK where we can reverse engineer the protocol formats of new head unit types.

(I really wish they would adopt a more open model of operation in some areas... screw audible and its DRM, let us disable support for it and hack our boxes.)

[STiDriver]

How does Bushing's 51-Terminal work?  I thought that it ran concurrently with 51D and allowed the chip to be queried.  I thought that using the same methodology the chip could be queried for the tag info directly or else for a filename or database entry that could provide the info.  No dice?

[zero cool]

Well lets take a look at the Kenwood firmware. or i should say the M-Bus protocol.

What i am hoping to do is snoop a Kenwood bus, snagg the discreet commands like track up/down, cd change etc. the basics make note of them, and store them.
Do the same thing with the Nak buss (not sure of the protocol, same as old sony)

then use a PIC to read those specific commands coming in from the Nak and then output a set of specific Kenwood commands to the PB(or cd changer). that harder part becomes reading the constant stream of track time info.

Other functions on the pins could be replicated as well. clock pulse, changer command go low etc.

What we would have to do then is figure out how to recieve the text lines from the M-Buss and translate that into a standard serial set for an external LCD.

I have hear a Nak headunit, a store display controller, cd changer, sony cd changer and kenwood changer. I need a Kenwood HU now.

Kenwood's 13 pin is exactly reveresed from the Nak/sony 13 pin layout. exactly. i thought at first i could fab up an adapter to invert all of the pins. that only partially worked. the changer powers on but i have no control over it. i am assuming that the protocols are in fact different.


So i have to believe that with a PIC we could replicate the functions of every pin and do a protocol translation.

I mean PIE has a large number of adapters for just this sort of thing. however they do not have a nak to anything adapter.

If we could get this to work. then we could adopt this to just about anything i would bet.


Zc

[judb]

Does the Nak have RCA aux in or is there an Aux in for their changer interface?  I would think it would be much easier to rig the kenwood FM modulator (with the RCA outs instead of the FM portion) to work as the LCD and controls and have the head unit do the audio portion...

However it would be cool to have a new working solution that could be adapted to other HU's...  I switched back to kenwood from Alpine because I couldn't live without my Keg.  heh.

[crane007]

I have hear a Nak headunit, a store display controller, cd changer, sony cd changer and kenwood changer. I need a Kenwood HU now.

I have a Kenwood FM modulator (never used) that would be a much cheaper solution for testing than buying a Kenwood HU. I no longer need the FM modulator so I would be willing to sell it.

Let me know.

crane007

[zero cool]

Does the Nak have RCA aux in or is there an Aux in for their changer interface?  I would think it would be much easier to rig the kenwood FM modulator (with the RCA outs instead of the FM portion) to work as the LCD and controls and have the head unit do the audio portion...

The Nak is loaded, i have 3 aux inputs plus CD changer input/control as well as F,R,Sub pre outs.
I get your point about using the controller. would work, but would clash with the looks of the BMW's interior.  hence the need for the mod.

I have considered building a custom HU. but that is a much bigger hill....


Zc

[judb]

Why not just mod the controller to look more BMW-ish .. orange illumination, new housing etc..?

I dunno.. either way I am watching with interest to see how things go

[zero cool]

Well, because i am also own a Mazda3 and would like to come up with a way to get the text onto the display. the display is on the CAN bus and i can do a text to CAN adapter as well. but first i need to get the text out of the PB.


Zc

[todd1010]

Well, because i am also own a Mazda3 and would like to come up with a way to get the text onto the display. the display is on the CAN bus and i can do a text to CAN adapter as well. but first i need to get the text out of the PB.


Zc

So you are saying you can make a box to take the text from the CD changer and make it speak to a CANbus car?

[zero cool]

Well....that is the theory anyway. The factory Siruis radio tuner has Text capability on the mazda display. so, it should be possible to decode what the sirius is doing and then duplicate that function for the Phatbox.

[Number6]

Does anyone have the actualy Mazda brand PB, and does THAT display text?  If not, I presume it's not that easy to do.