PhatHack
The Hacking Hoedown => PhatBox Hacking => Topic started by: sven on December 09, 2008, 10:25:05 pm
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Seems like it should. Any concerns to be had here?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136339
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It might work... However, it is only fair to point out that very few have managed to get 250GB drives to work, and even then I think that was with a bit of juggling as far as software is concerned. There is no reason to suppose that a 320G drive will be any different. From the hardware point of view, the drive should be compatible. At the end of the day, there is only one real way to find out... :P
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Son of a...I just got my 250GB drive working and now they come with an even bigger one.
You might consider your storage needs before plunging on the 320, bearing in mind that the 250GB drive is $60 cheaper, and the Phatnoise system has a stated limitation of 30,000 tracks in 999 playlists. I am up to about 29,000 tracks (MP3, various bitrates from 128 to 320) in ca. 600 playlists, and still have almost 70GB to spare on the 250. (I'm going to get it up to 30,001 just to see what happens). If you have a FLAC collection, then the bigger drive is definitely what you want.
In any case, it should work, albeit with some tweaking as with the 250 -- the 250 does not work at all in Vista, and requires specific steps to work with Phatnoise Media Manager in XP.
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Interesting. I currently have a 160GB. I am to the point now where a 250 would work but wouldn't last me long. I am sitting on 35k songs and a friend just gave me another 30GB of music to merge in my collection so I know I have to be close to 50k songs. It's crazy overkill, but I just like to have it all in on place.
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Then by all means go for it -- you can be the guinea pig for the 320GB drive.
However, double-check with Newegg that the drive is in fact an ATA drive. I searched Google using the same model number and it comes up SATA everywhere else. 250GB is still the biggest ATA drive I could find on Western Digital's website.
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Well spotted, Mark. I missed that :-[ - you are right - WD only list up to 250G for IDE laptop drives. A pity...
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It's a SATA drive. There is already a comment on Newegg from a disgruntled buyer, who expected ATA and got SATA.
Oh, well. I don't think there is much of a market for ATA drives these days, so I don't know if we will see anything larger than the 250.
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I wonder if it would be possible to install a sata-to-ide adapter into the dms casing?
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I wonder if it would be possible to install a sata-to-ide adapter into the dms casing?
Where...?
(http://www.wizard-widgets.co.uk/volvo/DMS2.jpg)
There's not that much space between the back of the DMS connector and the hard disk drive. A workable solution would be to substantially modify the Phatbox and the DMS and then to put the IDE controller to SATA drive adaptor in the Phatbox and just have SATA cable into the DMS. I know how I would do it, but I'm not that desperate!
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For anyone still interested, now there IS a 320GB IDE drive: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=599 (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=599)
Unfortunately, as it is another WD drive, the same issues experienced with their 250GB IDE drive are likely to be present in this one. Then again, it's only 99 bucks, and shouldn't be any worse...
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For anyone still interested, now there IS a 320GB IDE drive: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=599 (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=599)
Unfortunately, as it is another WD drive, the same issues experienced with their 250GB IDE drive are likely to be present in this one. Then again, it's only 99 bucks, and shouldn't be any worse...
I am starting to feel a challenge coming on... ;) (will be a month or two though)
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I can officially confirm that the 320GB Western Digital WD3200BEVE drive works (BTW, this drive is now available for <$90). This is using PhatNoise Music Manager 2.35 - I did not try other versions. Full capacity of the drive is available in the software.
I did have some issues at first. When I first installed the drive in the DMS, I attempted to set it up using the PhatHack DMS tools 2.12. Everything appeared to work correctly, but when I stated to copy new files over to the new drive, I got several CRC errors. So, I ended up installing the old DMS drive in an external enclosure, and cloning it to the new DMS drive, adjusting the size of the PHTDTA partition to take advantage of the new space (I used Acronis True Image). This worked great - it allowed me to seamlessly migrate to the new drive with my library intact, and both the PhatBox and Music Manager software had no issues. I've also been able to add many new files since doing this, and have not had a single CRC error.
If you are considering cloning a drive to a new 320GB, let me also add that my old drive was 160GB, so LBA48 was already installed. If you are moving from a smaller drive to a >127GB one via cloning, be sure to add LBA48.
-db
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I can also confirm the 320GB WD drive working with Phatnoise Media Manager 3.92 -- but only in accordance with my earlier post on the 250GB WD drive: http://forum.phathack.com/index.php/topic,1949.0.html (http://forum.phathack.com/index.php/topic,1949.0.html). That is, the initial creation of playlists and transfer of music must be done in Music Manager 2.30, and then you can use MM 3.92.
(I've tried to narrow this down on the 320GB drive. With playlists totalling about 200MB loaded in 2.30, the DMS still would not work in 3.92. Five playlists totalling about 450MB in 2.30 did work thereafter in 3.92. I don't know why, and I don't know if it's about the playlists or library size, but there you go.)
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I can officially confirm that the 320GB Western Digital WD3200BEVE drive works (BTW, this drive is now available for <$90). This is using PhatNoise Music Manager 2.35 - I did not try other versions. Full capacity of the drive is available in the software.
I did have some issues at first. When I first installed the drive in the DMS, I attempted to set it up using the PhatHack DMS tools 2.12. Everything appeared to work correctly, but when I stated to copy new files over to the new drive, I got several CRC errors. So, I ended up installing the old DMS drive in an external enclosure, and cloning it to the new DMS drive, adjusting the size of the PHTDTA partition to take advantage of the new space (I used Acronis True Image). This worked great - it allowed me to seamlessly migrate to the new drive with my library intact, and both the PhatBox and Music Manager software had no issues. I've also been able to add many new files since doing this, and have not had a single CRC error.
If you are considering cloning a drive to a new 320GB, let me also add that my old drive was 160GB, so LBA48 was already installed. If you are moving from a smaller drive to a >127GB one via cloning, be sure to add LBA48.
-db
I wonder if there's anything we can diagnostically to work out what's up here? Could be there's a calculation issue with partition sizes?
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@Mark: I'm glad to hear that the 320GB drive works but I'm a bit confused:
Why did you upgrade if you had 70 gigs to spare and were only 1,000 tracks short of hitting the 30k barrier?
@VorTechS: Would it be possible to partition the drive and have some sort of Phathack boot loader give you a choice between which partition you wanted to load upon startup? Imagine a single 320GB drive with two 160GB partitions containing 30k tracks each on a single DMS.
/edit: I'm confused even more... is there really a 30k hardlimit? :-\
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I upgraded the drive for the same reason I just put a new graphics card in my computer, even though the old one was perfectly fine: I'm a nerd.
The drive was only $90, and I wanted to see if it would work. I also wanted to give myself space for higher quality rips.
About the 30,000 track limit, the original Phatbox Users Manual states:
The PhatBox can handle as many as 9999 separate Disc numbers (playlists), with up to 9999 songs per Disc number. The total number of songs on the DMS Cartridge must not exceed 30,000.
The track limitation was probably theoretical rather than a known, set limitation -- having in mind that the manual was written in 2003, when the biggest available DMS would have been 40GB, and well before a number of updates to the software and the Phatbox/Keg firmware. In fact, there are now over 30,000 tracks on my 250GB DMS (still haven't finished loading up the 320), and it still works. What I do not know is if the Keg recognizes and can actually play every single track.
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@VorTechS: Would it be possible to partition the drive and have some sort of Phathack boot loader give you a choice between which partition you wanted to load upon startup? Imagine a single 320GB drive with two 160GB partitions containing 30k tracks each on a single DMS.
I've always like the idea of having the Keg support multiple profiles, this is why I introduced PhatSort into PhatHack Media Manager so you can abuse the MP3 tags and re-code VIOT. I should extend that one day to support 'internal tagging' for profiling and extending PhatSort to include the internal tags.
Anyway, right now I'm more interested in the CRC issues....and why they are occuring. Having written PhatPartition with a very limited understanding of disk management it would be good to find out what is actually causing this so I can put it right.
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Thanks for help Mark, VorTechS. I just purchased a 320GB :)
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The CRC errors seem to be related to the PhatNoise drivers -- if you use it without any PhatNoise apps open, it works better
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The CRC errors seem to be related to the PhatNoise drivers -- if you use it without any PhatNoise apps open, it works better
Better, or fully?
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Fully I think -- had the same issue with the 160GB drive...
http://forum.phathack.com/index.php/topic,620.0.html
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Yes, fully. In XP, with the 320GB in the cradle, but no PMM running, it functions as any normal external drive, with no errors whatsoever. As soon as you open PMM, it causes one or both partitions to un-mount, with Windows reporting delayed write errors. For whatever reason, it will only play nice with PMM if you start the software first and then insert the DMS.
In case it is relevant, I note that Vista will not recognize the 320GB (or the 250GB) drive in the cradle at all, though it will recognize and function normally with a 160GB drive. This leads me to suspect that the issue with the larger drives (both WD) may be due to a conflict between the drives and the USB cradle, not necessarily with the software.
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Did you notice any performance differential, as in a lot slower when you moved from the 160 to the 320? I've noticed that it takes XP a very long time to recognize PHTDTA (USB 2.0 cradle) and basically prevents anything else from happening until this completes when you insert the DMS into the cradle. PHTSYS seems like it also is somewhat slow in this regard too, but nowhere near as bad as PHTDTA (probably because of the obvious size difference between the two). Almost reminds me of the USB 1.0 cradle.
I'm wondering if the potential problem is with the 320 itself or is this par for the course with a very large partition running FAT32? My 120 from a speed standpoint is considerably faster in all phases of PMM 2.30 execution and XP recognizes it rather quickly and doesn't prevent other XP functionality from occurring.
After XP recognizes both partitions, it works as it should with 2.30, albeit slower than the 120. PMM 3.92 with the 320 is hit and miss, mostly miss even following your instructions.
Maybe there is no potential problem and that's the way it is with this particular HD? Thanks.
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I expect that's primarily caused by the large partition running FAT32, in conjunction with the cradle not being particularly fast
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Yeah, that's unfortunate. However, the problem really seems limited (at least IMHO) to the initial recognition of the DMS. It takes a while for the PHTDATA to get recognized. It's similar to putting a very large HD, like a 1TB on your system only to watch POST take a lot longer than ususal.
Anyway, thanks to Terry on another post, changing one system parameter to enable write caching for the drive (320gb) changed the speed of save and eject tremendously. Changed this for my 120gb as well. Too bad that change doesn't impact the initial DMS recognition time for the 320gb!
It works and that is what matters the most.
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Successfully created a DMS using a 320G drive on XP, loaded 1 album and it plays properly.
but the drive is only 128G, even in the disk manager applet. Can someone point me to doc on how to get PhtDta > 128Gig?
Using a USB-1 cradle, if that makes any difference.
TIA,
John
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I have a 100Gb drive that I would like to replace with a 320Gb one. The clone method seems from the messages to be quite painless, but I do not know how to accomplish the last statement in the post - "If you are moving from a smaller drive to a >127GB one via cloning, be sure to add LBA48."
Add where? From where?
If I use PhatHack DMS Tools to "create a new DMS", will the LBA48 code be installed correctly on the drive? Or will I still need to install it manually?
I tried to use PMM2.30 with PhatHack DMS Tools a while ago, and got the CRC errors that dburns got. Could this be related to this LBA48 stuff?
I'm not a Linux user, which explains my confusion. I would benefit from someone telling me exactly how to initialize my 320Gb drive, and exactly where to find (and put) the necessary software.
Thanks in advance.\
\Steve
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Using the DMS tools iis the simplest method as everything is done for you. The CRC errrors can, for the most part, be avoided by changing the drive properties within wnidows ... there's a thread already about this. If it still happens, then it's down to the way PhatNoise MM manipulates the drive.
PhatHack Media Manager does not suffer from this problem.
The DMS tools will load the LBA48 linux for you. The only thing you need to know in advance of using the DMS tools, is the firmware version already installed on the box (and you can then uncheck the reflash box option to save yourself 15 minutes or so).
But remember to select a firmware version, or the buttons will be greyed out.
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Successfully created a DMS using a 320G drive on XP, loaded 1 album and it plays properly.
but the drive is only 128G, even in the disk manager applet. Can someone point me to doc on how to get PhtDta > 128Gig?
Using a USB-1 cradle, if that makes any difference.
TIA,
John
Take a look in My Documents\PhatHack Media Manager\Logs, and check the logs for what the tools said the size of the partitions were for the formatting. I wonder if there is some limitation with the USB 1.1 cradle?
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either the cradle or my BIOS - the logs look consistent, below. I'll try this again on a vista machine with a newer bios when my USB-2 cradle arrives from the ebay seller.
thanks for the support. And big thanks for this very useful utility!!!
Disk ID: 3
Disk Name: WDC WD32 00BEVE-00A0H USB Disk
PnP Device: USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_WDC_WD32&PROD_00BEVE-00A0H&REV_11.0\D868C85AA5E2FF31&0
Disk Unique ID (not serial!): 16E73444
Partitions List
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(Debugging: About to Query WMI for Logical Disks)
(Debugging: ..Query Complete)
Partition: Disk #3, Partition #0
Drive: D:
Serial #: <New Volume: WMI Returned DBNull>
Partitions List
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(Debugging: About to Query WMI for Logical Disks)
(Debugging: ..Query Complete)
Partition: Disk #3, Partition #1
Drive: E:
Serial #: <New Volume: WMI Returned DBNull>
Device evaluation complete.
Checking mounted drives for disk...
[Cycle 1] Re-checking mounted drives for disk...
Re-checking WMI device list....
[Cycle 2] Re-checking mounted drives for disk...
Re-checking WMI device list....
...new disk mounts found successfully!
Checking available disk space...
...which is: 67,108,864 Bytes.
Checking available disk space...
...which is: 137,438,952,448 Bytes.
LBA Check reports: 137 GB
LBA kernel required: True
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Just an update to say that I used a USB-IDE/SATA adapter to connect my 320Gb drive to my HP laptop; ran PhatHack DMS Tools and created a new DMS. No problem at all. Launched PMM 2.30 and created a disk on the drive. Again, no problem. No CRC errors either. All without having to mount the drive in the DMS cartridge and the USB 2.0 cradle. Seemed a lot faster to format the drive as well.
I may just use this method everytime I want to update the files on the drive, although it will be a bit of a pain to take it out of the cartridge over and over.
I'm a happy camper; thanks VorTechS for the guidance.
/Steve
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My update: i got the USB-2 drive and it works on my XP machine (not Vista). I recreated my DMS, and the data partition is the proper size to fill out the disk, and I can copy lots of music files either from explorer or from PHMM.
Excellent!!!
John
PS: thanks VorTechS !!
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Ordered a couple of 320 gb drives from DirectCanada (online store in Canada - anyone who is looking for the 320 gb drive in Canada, search for the P/N WD3200BEVERTL at DirectCanada - this gives you the retail version, which is for some reason cheaper than the oem version...). At any rate installed the drive into the DMS, and used VorTechS' excellent phathack tools (v2.12, xp) to create the new DMS, no issues at all (thanks VorTechS!). Despite reading about the workaround, I started Media Manager 3.92 and, once running, inserted the DMS into the cradle. Left for a few minutes, and when I came back, the DMS was recognized. Did a "clean DMS" under the options menu, and began syncing my collection. Cool!
The only problem I have is that occasionally I get a "file in use" error while 3.92 is copying one of my music files and I have to retry. This happened with my 160gb drive as well. It's irritating since it takes about six hours to sync the entire collection (all .flac files), and if I get that message it just hangs until I say retry. It always works on retry, too...
Just want to say how much I appreciate all the work all have done in the past to get this stuff working. 320 gb of flac in my car is so awesome (my three year old loves it too...)
Jeff
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The only problem I have is that occasionally I get a "file in use" error while 3.92 is copying one of my music files and I have to retry. This happened with my 160gb drive as well. It's irritating since it takes about six hours to sync the entire collection (all .flac files), and if I get that message it just hangs until I say retry. It always works on retry, too...
What anti-virus software are you running? I have AVG Internet Security 8.5 and it has some interaction with file copies that move large amounts of data. The "Resident Shield" part of the product has to be temporarily disabled when I populate the DMS, as well as for copies to NAS units, or I get file-in-use errors. The description of that feature begins with "Resident Shield scans files as they are copied, opened, or saved..."
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Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I don't use any anti-virus software...
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Nothing wrong with that admission, I don't either. But then, maybe we are of a breed not stupid enough to click on web-popups that claim our PC is infected with 32 virus' and can clean 'em all out for us! ;)
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Hi! Just replaced my stock 20Gb with a 320Gb WD3200BEVE. DMS tools 2.12 did it flawlessly as per the instructions I did have to hack the box and upgrade the firmware first. I have it installed where my 6 CD changer used to be in an Audi A4 (B7) glovebox. Got rid of the 'heatsink' to fit it though but didn't even have to drop the glovebox to fit it. Used a cable from a guy on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110401288069&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT). Transferred about 60Gb of flacs so far. Great sound. Even beats the head units CD player!!!