Kenwood CES report

[sven]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679579p1.html

Are companies just giving up on Keg/Phatbox type solutions?  Too ahead of their time and just not simple enough for the masses?  

[LloydDobler]

No, Kenwood just built the phatbox into their 2006 head units so you can plug in ANY USB DEVICE YOU LIKE!  Woot!  Okay they only built it into 5 or 6 of their head units but it's the way it should have been done from the beginning.

This is not getting anywhere near enough coverage.

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/search/?query=USB

I've downloaded the instruction manuals for some of these head units and it is all the same PMM software with VOIT built right in to the head unit.

[judb]

I cant find an instruction manual for one of these USB head units.. you have a link Lloyd?

I suspect these will only support USB flash drives, not USB connected hard disks..  but if it did that would be cool as hell.

[sbingner]

As far as I know, USB Storage is USB Storage... so it would work the same for a flash drive or a hard drive... but most USB hard drives require external power.   Of course, there could be limits in their code on the size of the devices supported...

I could be wrong of course... I'm not basing this on any real empirical data

[markbowen]

I cant find an instruction manual for one of these USB head units.. you have a link Lloyd?

I suspect these will only support USB flash drives, not USB connected hard disks..  but if it did that would be cool as hell.

I posted this elsewhere -- they do support hard disks.  

See this link:  http://www.kenwood.com/usb/english.html

Any device belonging to the "USB Mass Storage Class" will work.  The limitations are 500 folders, 8 layers, 15,000 files -- this is the main difference to Phatbox, which (theoretically) supports 30,000 files.

Manual downloads:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/113/113KDCX590.PDF
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/113/113KDCX890.PDF
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/113/113DPX701.PDF

[LloydDobler]

The only other limitation I've noticed is that it says in the device information that the devices can't draw over 500mA current load.  I dug around for some specs and one laptop hard drive I looked at had a spin up current of 1A with a running current of 400mA.  I suspect that this will work fine, but if it doesn't, an external power supply will be required for the laptop drive in your car.   If you use a 3.5" external USB drive I suspect external power would definitely be mandatory.

But yeah even in the Kenwood manuals all the screenshots showing how to use their "AC drive" have the phatnoise logo right on them.  So they just stuffed the phatbox into the head units with support for fewer tracks.  

What that means is there will be a practical limit to hard drive size, (no point in having more space if you can't have more songs) but no limit on how many hard drives you can swap out.  I presume that's why they lowered the track limit, because of the power requirements to run the largest drives.  It keeps the head units cheaper without a major inconvenience.  

What I didn't read is if there is FLAC support, I suspect it's there but undocumented.  It'll be too bad if it isn't.

[judb]

i would be supprised if they have flac support in there.  

Also i'm not sure how the USB hard drive setup would work regarding installation and shock absorbsion etc.. but its an interesting idea.  Hopefully the USB connector is on the rear so you can hide everything.

[markbowen]

500mA is the same as any home computer puts out through the USB ports, and it will power any notebook hard drive.  I've got a notebook drive plugged into one of my USB ports at home, no additional power needed, no problem.  A 3.5 inch drive would definitely require external power.

According to the available manuals, FLAC is not supported, only AAC, MP3 and WMA.

As for the USB connections, the single DIN HUs have it on the back, double DIN on the front.

[LloydDobler]

Hopefully the USB connector is on the rear so you can hide everything.

It's a one meter dongle cable, so you can route it to the glove box, which is what I plan to do with mine.

[LloydDobler]

Well the debate is over, I've installed a Kenwood Excelon 890 head unit and it won't spin up a hard drive on its own, so I have to get an external power supply.  I suspect that in computers they allow the USB to spike to 1 or even 2 amps to allow for hdd spinup, but in the car, they cap it.  I'm gonna go shopping for the extra power supply tonight so I'll post a trip report on this setup when I get it going.  I already have the hdd loaded with music.

[S80_UK]

I suspect that in computers they allow the USB to spike to 1 or even 2 amps to allow for hdd spinup, but in the car, they cap it.  

Yes.  Many laptop PC's strictly limit the current according to the USB rules (100mA for a device before enumeration, and up to 500mA after).  Some PC's simply feed out the +5 volts from the power supply, others use thermally protected limiters which shut down if they get too hot, and they can give an amp or so for a few seconds.  

The car equipment makers are concerned to provide correct current control, since there are many completely non-compliant USB devices out there, many taking whole amps (think fans, burger warmers, beer coolers, etc!).  The problem is that if they don't limit the current they then have other liability and warrenty issues to worry about.

Regards,

Les.