DMS via USB Enclosure - PMM Not Recognizing

[oxblood8]

Hi All

Well here is my dilemma.  I received my phatbox last week and when i plugged in the cradle I had a brain freeze and forgot that the transformer would not be the correct one to use in Australia.  So after blowing up that transformer i tried one of my Aussie ones that i had, same output rating of 12V DC 800mA, and still no go on the cradle (no lights etc).  I think i must have blown the cradle

Anyway I have taken apart the DMS and put that in a 2.5" hdd enclosure and it works fine.  My question is, when i fire up PMM and go to the Devices tab and click on the "Phatnoise DMS" i get a "No PhatNoise DMS was detected" message.  Just wondered if there was any special way this needed to be configured within PMM or anywhere else?

If i can get PMM to recognise that the DMS is connected via a 2.5 enclosure then i wont bother getting another cradle sent over here (postage is a killer).  Alternatively, i have looked at the folder structure and can you just "copy" mp3s from within Windows Explorer straight to a folder on the DMS or do you need to use PMM because of the database stuff etc?

Any help would be great.

[markbowen]

Firstly, yes, you do need to use either Music Manager or Media Manager to transfer the tracks, because of the database stuff (playlists, etc.).  If you just transfer tracks in Explorer, your DMS will still appear to be empty to the Phatbox.

You may well have fried the cradle, let's hope the drive was not also affected. 

When you plug in the 2.5 enclosure, are both partitions of the drive (phtsys and phtdta) showing up in Explorer?  If both partitions are not showing up, PMM will not recognize it as DMS.

This could also come down to which version of PMM you are using.  Are you using Music Manager 2.30, or Media Manager 3.92?  I have successfully used Music Manager with a 2.5 enclosure, but not Media Manager, which tends to be a bit fussy.

[oxblood8]

Firstly, yes, you do need to use either Music Manager or Media Manager to transfer the tracks, because of the database stuff (playlists, etc.).  If you just transfer tracks in Explorer, your DMS will still appear to be empty to the Phatbox.

You may well have fried the cradle, let's hope the drive was not also affected. 

When you plug in the 2.5 enclosure, are both partitions of the drive (phtsys and phtdta) showing up in Explorer?  If both partitions are not showing up, PMM will not recognize it as DMS.

This could also come down to which version of PMM you are using.  Are you using Music Manager 2.30, or Media Manager 3.92?  I have successfully used Music Manager with a 2.5 enclosure, but not Media Manager, which tends to be a bit fussy.

Ok, when i fire up Windows Explorer i think from memory (i did this at work this afternoon) I have F:\ which was blank (no label on the drive and no files or folders etc) and I:\ which had a label, cant remember which one it was of the 2 (phtsys or phtdta) but it had folders in it like Playlist and the Welcome to Phatbox.mp3 (or whatever its called).  I installed the latest version of Music Manager, version 2.30.

[markbowen]

Ok, when i fire up Windows Explorer i think from memory (i did this at work this afternoon) I have F:\ which was blank (no label on the drive and no files or folders etc) and I:\ which had a label, cant remember which one it was of the 2 (phtsys or phtdta) but it had folders in it like Playlist and the Welcome to Phatbox.mp3 (or whatever its called).  I installed the latest version of Music Manager, version 2.30.

Looks like you have the phtsys partition, but something has gone wrong with the phtdta partition.  Have you done anything like reformat or repartition the DMS?  You will have to download the Windows DMS utilities (http://downloads.phathack.com/judb/dmsutils-v1.2.1.exe) or the Phathack CD (http://downloads.phathack.com/judb/DMS-Hack-or-Repair-v1_5.iso) and run a repair on the DMS.  Try the utilities first as it is fairly self-explanatory.  After you repair your DMS, you have to load the correct firmware for your car stereo using PMM.

[oxblood8]

Looks like you have the phtsys partition, but something has gone wrong with the phtk partition.  Have you done anything like reformat or repartition the DMS?  You will have to download the Windows DMS utilities (http://downloads.phathack.com/judb/dmsutils-v1.2.1.exe) or the Phathack CD (http://downloads.phathack.com/judb/DMS-Hack-or-Repair-v1_5.iso) and run a repair on the DMS.  Try the utilities first as it is fairly self-explanatory.  After you repair your DMS, you have to load the correct firmware for your car stereo using PMM.

Have not done a reformat or anything yet.  So the other partition (in my case F:\) should this have a label and any files or folders on it?  Also you say if i do a repair on it i will have to reload the firmware via PMM.  Is PMM Phatbox Music Manager or Media Manager or something altogether different?

[markbowen]

When the DMS shows up in your computer it should look something like:
e:\phtsys
f:\phtdta

The phtsys partition should be much smaller than phtdta, only a few hundred MBs at most.  If you have not done anything to it at all to cause the phtdta partition to be without a label or any data, I wonder if you got a dud DMS.  Did you buy it new or used?

Anyway, hopefully it can still be repaired.  After running the repair, you load the firmware via Media Manager or Music Manager, your choice.

After that, unless you know you need to update the firmware on your Phatbox, you should delete the file "forceupdate" from the phtsys partition.

By the way, you may want to consider investing in another cradle, as you will likely run into more issues just using a 2.5 enclosure.

[oxblood8]

When the DMS shows up in your computer it should look something like:
e:\phtsys
f:\phtdta

The phtsys partition should be much smaller than phtdta, only a few hundred MBs at most.  If you have not done anything to it at all to cause the phtdta partition to be without a label or any data, I wonder if you got a dud DMS.  Did you buy it new or used?

Anyway, hopefully it can still be repaired.  After running the repair, you load the firmware via Media Manager or Music Manager, your choice.

After that, unless you know you need to update the firmware on your Phatbox, you should delete the file "forceupdate" from the phtsys partition.

By the way, you may want to consider investing in another cradle, as you will likely run into more issues just using a 2.5 enclosure.

I got this Phatbox from ebay, the seller had not used it.


Ok here is an update as to what i have tried today. 

PLEASE NOTE i am connecting the drive via a 2.5" enclosure as my cradle is not working.

- I:\    PHTDTA is the drive that is showing up ok.
- F:\   Local Disk, therefore NO PHTSYS label

Ok so I formatted (FAT32) the F:\ and gave it the PHTSYS label.  I then unzipped the downloaded firmware successfully onto the partition.  When i start PMM i get the "Phatnoise Music Manager has detected an uninitialized DMS.  I then run thru the wizard and this goes fine.

When i attempt to Save and Eject the DMS the save works fine, but i get the "Error Ejecting DMS" message with the Norton antivirus etc message.  (I have shutdown Norton).  I then go to "Eject, Dont Save". Again i get the "Error Ejecting DMS" message but PMM does shutdown. 

If i restart PMM the phatbox is found ok.  When i add a new album and go to Save/Eject, there is an error on I:\TTS\Arctic Monkeys.wav   "Unable to create voice prompt".  To me, it seems like the PHTDTA drive is corrupted somehow aswell (If i go to TTS directory its all funny characters for the filenames and some files are of a huge size (4GB etc).  Can this just be formatted like PHTSYS and the folder structure is re-created by PMM? 

Finally there is a problem after i disconnect the drives (using the Safely remove hardware option).  When i reconnect the drive the "PHTSYS" partition comes up corrupted again.  Sometimes with all funny characters on the label and on the filenames, and sometimes it just goes back to Local Disk (F:\) with nothing on it.  Of course, when starting PMM and clicking on "Phatnoise DMS" under Devices the Phatbox cannot be found. 

After i have updated the firmware through PMM, should i then disconnect and take it straight to the car?  Does this somehow ensure the firmware is on there?


Ok so in summary:

- Can PHTDTA be formatted and the folder/file structure is auto re-created by PMM?
- Can some or all of these problems be related to the fact that i am connecting via the 2.5 enclosure and not the cradle?
- Is the instance that when disconnecting the drives and reconnecting, the PHTSYS partition is gone does this mean the drive might be screwed altogether?

From your previous post i downloaded dmsutilites.exe.  After extraction i didnt know what order to run each script to do a repair.  Any instructions for that would be tops.

Sorry if all of this is very hard to read.  If there are any step by step directions to get me back on track that would be much appreciated.

[sbingner]

hit save w/o eject... it's kinda hard to eject it when it's not ejectable... (not in USB)

[markbowen]

You really must do a proper repair of the DMS.  My mistake, I think you don't have a repair option with the DMS utilities.  You need to use the hack/repair CD.  You download the iso file and burn the image to a CD.  Then boot from the CD, without the drive connected, and you should be able to follow the directions from there.

Before doing that, run a thorough scandisk of both partitions on the DMS.  Corrupt data and disappearing partitions suggests a bad drive or a virus.

If you manage to get everything fixed, it should work well enough using the 2.5 enclosure.  I don't think the issues you are having are related to the enclosure.  Sam is right, though, it will not eject when connected this way.  However, if you save everything properly and then safely disconnect, it should work fine in your phatbox.

[sbingner]

You can't use the dms ISO without a USB enclosure...  it sounds to me like you're fine just try it in your car

[oxblood8]

You can't use the dms ISO without a USB enclosure...  it sounds to me like you're fine just try it in your car

After installing the new firmware i tried the DMS in the car last nite.  As expected the red and green lights came on and green was flashing indicating the firmware upgrade.  However, the lights never went out after about 40 minutes.

You really must do a proper repair of the DMS.  My mistake, I think you don't have a repair option with the DMS utilities.  You need to use the hack/repair CD.  You download the iso file and burn the image to a CD.  Then boot from the CD, without the drive connected, and you should be able to follow the directions from there.

Before doing that, run a thorough scandisk of both partitions on the DMS.  Corrupt data and disappearing partitions suggests a bad drive or a virus.

If you manage to get everything fixed, it should work well enough using the 2.5 enclosure.  I don't think the issues you are having are related to the enclosure.  Sam is right, though, it will not eject when connected this way.  However, if you save everything properly and then safely disconnect, it should work fine in your phatbox.

ok i ran a scandisk on both partitions and the PHTSYS one seemed fine.  However the PHTDTA only got about 1/4 the way thru after 3 hours so i stopped it.  I then tried the Repair/Hack boot disk.   When it fired up i had the 2.5 enclosure unplugged.  I then plugged this in and it was recognised (in the green text).  I then pressed Enter and it just sat there searching for the DMS for like 1.5 hours.  I figured that this probably wasnt working so i rebooted.  I then deleted both partitions on the disk and attemped a reformat, got about 25% thru but unfortunately i had to stop this as i needed to leave work (it was stuck on 25% for about 5 minutes).  I was just going to format the drive then run the boot disk again and do the hack from scratch (i hope this is ok).  As a matter of interest how long should the hack take to complete on the 20GB drive?

From all of this do you think there is something wrong with the disk?  Are there any programs out there that when formatting will show a visual representation of the sectors?

Also, i was going to go to the local computer store to get a cable to convert the laptop drive to normal IDE so i can plug it into my PC (the 2.5 enclosure was a mates who needed it back over the weekend).  Will this still work if plugged into the PC this way?

Thanks for all of the help given so far, its been much appreciated.

[VorTechS]

All indicators point to a trashed disk, and the only real way of proving it would be to try a low-level format of the disk - or get the diagnostic tools for the drive.

You should have no problems hooking up the laptop drive using an Laptop-->IDE interface.

[markbowen]

Yep, the disk is very likely hosed.  I don't think you should have tried it in the car either, but that can be sorted out later.

As VorTechS suggested, you should try some other diagnostic tools for the drive, but most tools need an IDE connection to work.  As that is the stock DMS, the drive should be Toshiba, I think, and you could try finding some diagnostic tools on their site.  Alternatively, I know WD has a diagnostic tool that works pretty well.  It will tell you how bad the drive is and whether it can be repaired.  If that hangs like like ScanDisk did, it means the drive is too far gone to fix.

I would guess that the drive may have gotten knocked around in shipping.  In any case, you should follow up with the seller to tell him you got a dead drive.

[oxblood8]

Yep, the disk is very likely hosed.  I don't think you should have tried it in the car either, but that can be sorted out later.

As VorTechS suggested, you should try some other diagnostic tools for the drive, but most tools need an IDE connection to work.  As that is the stock DMS, the drive should be Toshiba, I think, and you could try finding some diagnostic tools on their site.  Alternatively, I know WD has a diagnostic tool that works pretty well.  It will tell you how bad the drive is and whether it can be repaired.  If that hangs like like ScanDisk did, it means the drive is too far gone to fix.

I would guess that the drive may have gotten knocked around in shipping.  In any case, you should follow up with the seller to tell him you got a dead drive.

Well i am reluctant to take it up with the seller as I used the wrong power supply in the cradle (with the DMS in there) when i first fired it up.  So if that is what has caused all these issues then i really dont have a leg to stand on.  I was thinking I might go and buy an 80GB drive tomorrow.  Any brands in particular i should get?  And what specs should the drive have?

[markbowen]

Well i am reluctant to take it up with the seller as I used the wrong power supply in the cradle (with the DMS in there) when i first fired it up.  So if that is what has caused all these issues then i really dont have a leg to stand on.  I was thinking I might go and buy an 80GB drive tomorrow.  Any brands in particular i should get?  And what specs should the drive have?

Right.  I forgot about the power supply goof at the start of all this.

However, before you run out and buy another drive, be aware that to hack your Phatbox to work with any drive, you must have a working original DMS.  So, unless you want to shell out for a new DMS, you should try the earlier suggestions to see if you can get the one you have working long enough to hack your box.

[judb]

you may be able to use the electronics board off a non broken DMS to revive your drive but your cradle will need to be replaced..

[oxblood8]

well i tried a format on the entire drive yesterday and as expected it didnt work.  Got to 25% and sat there for hours and hours.  I ran scandisk again and it got to about 25% through and it just sat there.

I think it's safe to say this drive is cactus

So if I buy a new DMS and cradle, this will work fine with the Phatbox unit i already have?

Also, any recommendations on where to buy a new DMS and cradle?

[judb]

the cradle you can get used either on ebay or in the for sale section of this forum.. get a USB 2 one if you can.

The DMS would be best to either borrow a working one to hack your box, OR buy a used one because phatnoise charges a lot for new DMS drives they sell.  check the same places.. ebay or the for sale section of this forum...

[oxblood8]

Ok today I performed a low level format and that got through fine.  i then re-partitioned (260MB for PHTSYS) and the remainder for PHTDTA.  PHTSYS formatted fine but again PHTDTA got 25% thru and failed.  I then deleted the PHTDTA partition and re-created this as a 2GB partition and this formatted fine.  I put the firmware back on PHTSYS and fired up PMM and all was fine.  I put music on and saved the DMS no worries.  All looked good at this point.

However, when i unplug the enclosure and plug it in again i lose PHTSYS.  No data and no label on the drive.  I was just wondering what you need to be able to hack a new drive.  If you can do this thru windows (so i dont have to unplug the enclosure) maybe i have enuff to be able to hack a new drive.

[judb]

if you repartitioned the drive yourself then the drive is useless as an original DMS, unless you did it using the phatnoise repair CD.  There is a 1 meg section of the drive at the beginning that contains special information that the phatbox reads to boot up.  It's some encrypted data that has a copy of the drives serial number stored in it.  if that isn't there and the phatbox isn't hacked the system wont take your drive.

You are going to have to get an original DMS from someone (borrow or buy) and hack your phatbox and then you can buy any drive that will fit in the dms case and use it.