Owwww... my head hurts.. Need to build new HDD

[Phool]

Hi all -

Have spent a humbling evening looking through lots of posts here re. getting round the Phatnoise signature issue on a new HDD in a DMS.  

Clearly lots of worthy and dead smart thinking going on.. but I'm new at this I'm afraid.  

The HDD in my DMS died - dead.  Replaced it with an equivalent 20Gb IBM Travelstar.  Repartitioned and reformatted using the regular Phatnoise-downloadable DMS Rescue utility (the one that creates a LILO boot disk), then installed Keg firmware v13.1 etc... but (as I now see is expected) my Keg won't boot.  Looks like this 'signature' issue.

Problem is - all fixes I see here, rely on a 'known Good' DMS to seed the process.  I have no 'known Good' DMS - mine died.  Is there ANY WAY whatsoever that I can get that signature either written to my HDD, or over-ridden in the Keg..?  I don't care about risk, because currently my Keg is an attractive plastic paper-weight.... :-(   Is it possible anyone can post a GHOST- or simliar bitwise image of their own DMS that I could burn down to my drive..?   Thanks in advance - sorry for newb question.  Kind Regards - Chris.

[skew]

I could be wrong but you can't patch the firmware without an approved dms first. After its patched then you can rebuild with any hd. Do you have any buddy's or a friend with a good dms to patch your box?

[Genesis]

Yep - you need to find someone with a REAL DMS (it doesn't have to be for a Kenwood box) that is willing to have his DMS be hacked on to run the patch.

Running the patch will not destroy his DMS' signature - that is, it won't make it "less real" - and if he wants when you're done with it he can do a rescue/recover on it and then reload the firmware and music, and all will be as if nothing had happened.

Note that the patch only has to be run ONCE on a given box.

[Phool]

Thanks for the clarification guys.    

Unfortunately I have no friends (at all <LOL>) with either Phatbox or Keg..... so it seems like I'm rather stuck... :-/

Has anyone ever tried using something like "MBRTool" (http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/mbrtool.htm)  or "Partition-Saving" (http://www.partition-saving.com/) or "Acronis" (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage)...

.. to take either an entire bitwise image of a DMS from track0 onwards, or just of the MBR (which I am guessing is where the PhatNoise signature lives...).., so it can then be written to another disk..?

I have used this kind of thing for years in my business, to exactly replicate hard drives, literally reading the disk sector by sector and creating an image file which can then be restored to another disk.  These are bit-by-bit images, not 'files and directories' backups, and as far as I'm aware, all the above tools work with USB drives.  

If some kind soul out there would agree to imaging their DMS (PHTSYS only) and posting the image file somewhere for me, I would gladly provide the software and also pay for the privilege....?   To be honest at this stage I would probably also buy a Brewery and give you the keys!   I know this is not strictly speaking what this Forum is for, but as you'll understand I'm now pretty desperate !!  

Alternatively, does anyone on the Forum have an old DMS, say a 10 Meg maybe, that they might be willing to sell me for a reasonable amount of cash, just so I can get the no-signature Patch into my Keg...?   There's nothing on Ebay at the moment and Phatnoise prices are crazy... cheaper to buy an entire new Keg second hand.   I'm in the UK.   I'd also be interested in buying an unwanted mainboard perhaps from an old Keg, if anyone could sell one with the Patch already applied ?! <LOL>

Please help me before I go mad... I have a 90 minute drive to work each day... and without my Keg, it's so ... ... lonely... ....  and [size=10]quiet[/size].....

[skew]

none of these programs will work unless you did it on your dms and installed it on your dms. The signature is tied to the hd serial number thats why we have to patch in the first place to bypass this check.

[Firefox]

I'm in the UK.  

Where abouts in the UK?

[Phool]

Skew - I take your point that if the sig. is linked to the HDD S/N then there's no point in just cloning a disk.  Just a thought.   However - is the format and algorithm for the sig. sufficiently well understood that, starting with the S/N of my disk, I could actually write a signature to it using MBRTool or similar...?   Also, I'm interested in your point re. utilities only working if running on the DMS - why would this be?    My (newby) view of the DMS is that it's just an IDE drive with a USB interface... therefore surely it can be addressed like any other IDE device..?

Firefox - I live near Leicester and work in Northampton.   If you might in any way be in a position to help out, I'd travel of course.  

Thanks all.

[Genesis]

The signature is an RSA hash - forget about being able to compute it unless you have the private key used by Phatnoise to do so (it is NOT on the disk or in their software that they distribute)

That's why all the brouhaha about patching the boot loader flash - the flash checks the disk and won't load it unless the signature is there and valid.  The patch is basically all about tricking the box to run a piece of code that happens to write to the flash chip, bypassing the instruction that would normally go to the "Screw you, that isn't a valid disk" routine.

So you need to get your hands on a valid DMS ONCE to patch the bootloader flash chip in the box - once that's happened then you can use whatever disk you want (you also need the signature off the valid disk, but if you have one working disk you can accomplish both needs at once)

[judb]

I suggest seeing if you can buy a cheap DMS online on Ebay and using that as your seed DMS to crack the system and then just sell it again when you are done.  Just an idea.

That or send the dead one to phatnoise to have repaired (aka buy a new one from them at extremely marked up prices) hehe

Good luck dude!

[Firefox]

Firefox - I live near Leicester and work in Northampton.   If you might in any way be in a position to help out, I'd travel of course.  

I usually live and work near Brighton, but i'm away on hols with car next week (New Forest). If you are still stuck after that (w/c 15th Aug) give me another shout and I'll try to help out if I can.
I'd recommend the ebay route too, or if you are brave - buy a new Keg from a retailer that takes returns within 30 days.......  

[Firefox]

Another idea - there are guys on here saying they are picking up VW units for $109. You could work with a kind soul in the US and buy one of those. Just get them to send you the DMS out of the box and let them keep the rest as a present. Still would be a very cheap DMS!!
Plus then you have a real DMS to keep and can use your broken DMS as the shell for a new 100GB drive....

If you want the whole shebang then this is pretty cheap but watch the postage and import duty...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=38655&item=7989943935

[Genesis]

Yeah, you can get a complete VW system at http://www.1stvwparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=755&osCsid=735415009fd2e085a98f77a15e9b6107 for $119 (plus shipping)

That includes a 20GB DMS..... just buy it and then either resell the entire thing, sell the pieces other than the DMS, etc....

[Phool]

Guys, thank you all for comments and help to date.

Looks like I'm really going to have to buy another Keg or Phatbox just for a donor DMS.    

Thanks for the links to Ebay and to the site in the US with a VW 'Box on offer.. but by the time I factor in the $166 delivery charge (yes really!),  I'm looking at $286 total.... ouch !   Cheaper than a DMS from Phatnoise, granted... but still a stinger.   Ebay looks favourite, with VW 'Boxes on offer from Germany at around EUR 130 with EUR 20 delivery.
 
On which subject... if I do have to get a Phatbox, does anyone have any views on 'Keg versus Phatbox'..?   Because I run a Kenwood double-DIN headunit (DPX-MP5070, as here--> http://www.kenwoodaudio.com/thailand/prodDetails.asp?Cat=Car%20Entertainment&SubCat=2%20DIN%20Components&Model=DPX-MP5070 ) I have never looked at anything other than a Keg... but I have always had the impression that feature support is better on the Phatbox series of products...?    

If I am going to end up potentially buying a cheap Phatbox, is there any benefit in actually sticking with it over my Keg..?  What should I go for in order to still achieve compatibility with my Kenwood H/U..?  Does it matter.. ie, can I get multichanger cables to connect any flavour of Phatbox (VW, Audi etc) to a Kenwood H/U... .. .. and in the end is worth it... is the differentiation in Phatboxes (VW, Honda, Whatever) more significant than just the pinout of the cable interface, as I would imagine..?

As a final point, to repeat what I said earlier, if there is anyone in this forum with a (eg) 10Gb DMS for sale, I am very interested to talk further... .   If you have patched your system, strikes me that you might well have a smaller original drive hanging around that you have now replaced.  If so, drop me a PM...?

Thanks all.

Kind Regards.

[Genesis]

I'm running a Phatbox on a Kenwood head unit in my boat using the kenwood firmware and a cable I got on the net.  No problems, but be aware that you can't buy a VIOT key for a VW box that has been flashed from Phatnoise.

[A543]

http://wiki.phathack.com/VIOT

[A543]

Any guess as to how much it would cost to ship a DMS from the northeast USA to UK?  Would it cost the same going the other way?

[Genesis]

http://wiki.phathack.com/VIOT

Oh, that?    

[Phool]

I'm running a Phatbox on a Kenwood head unit in my boat using the kenwood firmware and a cable I got on the net.  No problems,

Thanks for that Genesis - sounds promising.

To be honest I've always had reliability issues with my Keg, mostly around skipping and even hanging up altogether, despite running the latest F/Ware etc.   So, if I do end up buying an actual Phatbox, I'd be interested to actually use it in anger to see if some of these issues go away.

But.. from everyone here's point of view, is there actually any sense behind my 'impression' that the Phatbox is actually a preferable item to run than the Keg..?  Dunno why but I've always had this feeling that the C710 Keg is not a mainstream Kenwood product, seems less well supported (Kenwood never really seem very clued up - apols to any Kenwood guys reading this ! :-) )...?  It's clearly a third party product that Kenwood have OEM'd, which makes me just feel less happy about it, especially bearing in mind the ongoing skipping issues I've had.

In terms of your cable for a Kenwood H/U .... can you please let me know where you sourced that on the web..?   I must confess I haven't read the section on this site about Phatbox pinouts... but is it the case that the 'Box presents the SAME pinout no matter what 'flavour' it is (VW, Skoda.. whatever) so at least one end of the cable is the same, but the H/U end of course differs by brand..?  Or is it the case that there are multiple pinouts on the Box... in which case, is there a particular flavour that is 'best' to buy if I want to hook up to a Kenwood H/U..?

Thanks in advance once again.

Kind Regards

[A543]

My Kenwood 710 had a revision 1.0 board in it, while my Audi box came with a revision 1.1 board.
Supposedly the newer board sounds significantly better. Since I liked the look of the Keg over the Audi, I just swapped boards.  The only downside is I lost the RCA outputs, but I didn't use them anyway.

[Genesis]

I got the cable from Pacparts - but its sometimes hard to get them... they're out of stock a lot...