What's been tried so far..

[AndyMan]

Copy of my t0/s0 from the link below

[para]

I really doubt that the drive's serial number is actually stored on the platters... I think the only reasonable place would be either the flash (firmware) or even better (not for us!) some EPROM allowing to write it only once! Why should they place it anywhere where it could be changed afterwards? There's no need to...

Para

[judb]

I know that its rewritable...  I don't doubt that part.

However, the major concern I have right now is, WHEN we get the ability to change the drive serial... I say when because it will happen... are there any other hdparm items being used in the key gen.  If so we may only be able to duplicate the exact drive size to non phatnoise sourced drives.

Example: Terry took a 60 gig Fujitsu drive and made a dupe to another 60 gig Fujitsu.  Could we do this to a larger Fujitsu drive?  Thats the big wildcard right now.

If we cannot make larger than 80 gig drives using this method I'll be really unhappy because all we have done is lock phatnoise out of sales of any existing inventory they have on hand of drives and DMS carts.  That would not be my desire, although I also do not desire to pay their insane markups on drives.  

I mean seriously, the drives are not special, I dont care what anyone thats not a phatnoise employee says.  And until a phatnoise employee comes out and says we have X number of special drives made by toshiba to Y spec (that would be significantly diffrent than the published specs of the normally sourced drives) its all just speculation for the purpose of self justification of an outrageous markup on standard consumer goods.  [/rant]

I really REALLY wish someone at phatnoise would take a suggestion and set up an app where we pay them a reasonable (<$50) fee for signing a drive we place in a USB cradle that uses some web connection to their servers for authorization or something.  I'd buy several drives and have phatboxes of some sort in all my cars and my extended family vehicles.

[Oaf]

I know that its rewritable...  I don't doubt that part.

However, the major concern I have right now is, WHEN we get the ability to change the drive serial... I say when because it will happen... are there any other hdparm items being used in the key gen.  If so we may only be able to duplicate the exact drive size to non phatnoise sourced drives.

I really REALLY wish someone at phatnoise would take a suggestion and set up an app where we pay them a reasonable (<$50) fee for signing a drive we place in a USB cradle that uses some web connection to their servers for authorization or something.  I'd buy several drives and have phatboxes of some sort in all my cars and my extended family vehicles.

I agree that it's possible to reflash serial number etc info on (most) drives. Whether parameters other than the serial are taken into account during the key making process is something that we could prove quite easily once we had one working "cloned" drive. Just change the other available values/try other drive sizes and see when it stops working...

Re Terry Kennedy, I find it a bit odd that someone should ask for help on other public boards, solve (to some extent) the problem - then not share the solution they've found with others... but maybe that's just me... I guess we're all different It would only take a URL to the right flash utility/HD Tools program and someone could run with it.

I agree on the $50 (or whatever price they come up with) suggestion, I said something similar on another thread. One compromise might be to just sell the (empty) DMS cases at a (slightly) inflated price and maintain the goodwill/userbase?

[judb]

Some people are just like that I guess.

I know hes signed up to the boards but I am not going to beat around the bush about it.  

Thats pretty gay.

However, thats enough of that...

I don't think phatnoise thinks we will ever get around their setup, or worse yet, the just dont care.  Now if it was contract related, I might be more understanding but they've been too tight lipped with the fans to date so its hard to say.

I mean, I've bought 3 kegs and a VW phatbox,  thats a pretty loyal customer eh?

[para]

Yep, completely agree with you! And by the way the online signing "subscription" is a great idea! I'd love to go that way but...

Anyway, how do you know a drive's sn can be changed? Ever witnessed that? I mean, I hope you're right but I just don't the reason why they would build it like that.

Para

[judb]

well, if you think about the way a drive build process would work, the PCB's would be made someplace and the spindles made in another area, wouldn't it make sense that they would put the serial number on the drive somehow?  

Just like with the phatbox I am sure they come off some assembly line and are flashed and tested.

Has anyone here swapped the PCB on a drive and seen if the serial number changes?  That would be pretty telling.

[sbingner]

Anyway, how do you know a drive's sn can be changed? Ever witnessed that? I mean, I hope you're right but I just don't the reason why they would build it like that.

Quote from: http://www.salvationdata.com/hfrpro_detail.htm

SalvationDATA HDD Firmware Repairer PRO can change model number and serial number of HDDs, it can also modify the maximum value of HDDs and restore S.M.A.R.T list; Reads and writes on HDD firmware zone; Start up the built-in selfscan function of the defective HDD...

Unfortunately that's only for maxtor, they do have a version that works with Fujitsu but it dosn't SAY it can change serial number

[sbingner]

I have two identical drive I can try swapping PCBs on, but they're 20gb IBM travelstars heh...

Also, I think they change the serial number whenever they refurbish a drive

[judb]

still might be an interesting test.

[judb]

^^^ I mean the drive swap of PCB's

also the site you linked mentions a method of hot swapping the PCB to be able to flash a drive thats firmware is toast.  so that pretty much settles it in my book.

[sbingner]

^^^ I mean the drive swap of PCB's

heh, running into technical difficulties:  anybody know where the *&^%%$# I can get those teeny weeny hex drivers?

[judb]

think they have them at homedepot or walgreens Dunno if they have that in HI or not.  havent had the chance to make it out there.

Also timewarner in austin's DNS is not querying the phathack.com domain properly for some reason.. I had to go to the name server hosting it from a whois to get the IP and put it in my host file.  stupid timewarner DNS server.

[para]

SalvationDATA HDD Firmware Repairer PRO

Ok, sounds interesting. I just thought even if these drives are assembled in different steps they might use an EPROM which will be programmed once to hold the sn. This way it couldn't be changed while it's still easy to programm it for individual drives even if they do it after their final tests... Time will tell, hopefully

[sbingner]

Well, I found the appropriate hex drivers.... and swapped the boards... at which time NOTHING happened.  The BIOS wouldn't even detect the drive... switched back and everything worked again

[judb]

That is an interesting situation..


I have swapped drive boards before and had luck with full size hard drives instead of the laptop drives.  Hmm...

[astreau]

Emule has thrown up some Fujitsu ATA drive diagnostic stuff. I haven't downloaded it cos I've got a Toshiba waiting for a "blessing"

[tgvas]

A user over at Phatnoise turned me onto your forum here, ...........I've been determined, it seems, to do the switch and save HD as well, looks like it may not be as easy as I originally hoped, but not surprised phat has encoded something to keep making the big money on selling drives!

As far as I know, and it's no where in your realm of knowledge,

1. size dosen't matter

2. Phat software is able to reformat and partition their drives for you.

3. is it possible you all are looking the wrong way?
The key is the BOX, the lock is the Drive, rather then the reverse?

[judb]

A user over at Phatnoise turned me onto your forum here, ...........I've been determined, it seems, to do the switch and save HD as well, looks like it may not be as easy as I originally hoped, but not surprised phat has encoded something to keep making the big money on selling drives!

As far as I know, and it's no where in your realm of knowledge,

1. size dosen't matter

2. Phat software is able to reformat and partition their drives for you.

3. is it possible you all are looking the wrong way?
The key is the BOX, the lock is the Drive, rather then the reverse?

The "software" you mention I can only assume you mean the boot disk / cd that repartitions and formats the DMS but works with any drive... that is because it is a series of scripts that avoid touching the portion of the hard disk that the "magic sectors" are stored in so any drive would work using those scripts I assume.  However once you try and use it with the box, the box is going to check the drive for a key.

The box is not tied to the drive, the key stored on the drive is how they determine if the audio (audible content for example) belongs on that drive and will then allow you to play it.

Hope that helps.

[tgvas]

Well thanks, it probably won't help me much since, I'm pretty good at rebuilding hardware in PCs, and writting POS systems, when it comes to the level of you all, I'm a dumb duck.

YES, I was  refering to the software you recieve with the box, and your reply makes absolute sense.

As for the seriel numbers, hmmm, old box works with much newer DMS , they must have really thought ahead...........


Here's something to pounder though!

I just recieved my 3 Phatnoise systems which I purchased on EBAY, full sets for my Audi, cable, L brackets and 20 gig dms, each for $180.00.

Brand New, how can that possibly be since Audi wanted $798 each and just to buy a 20 gig DMS from phat is would have cost me nearly as much as the entire System just cost me?

Kind of makes trying to install any of my 100 gig drives a waste of time, except, it would be so cool to break this!

"Is it true, that Phatnoise will not function, or for some reason will not use NTFS, and sticks to the FAT32?

If so, why would that be?

Thanks