Author Topic: Help getting started with swapping HDs  (Read 18762 times)

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Offline josefgabriel

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Help getting started with swapping HDs
« on: September 11, 2009, 10:21:46 pm »
Hello. I just found this place and is looks like a great resource. I looked around but have a few questions that I am unclear on. I have a really old 10Gig cartridge that came with my Kenwood "music keg" and a 60Gig I bought later. I went to look into getting a 120 Gig but looks like they are no longer carried. It looks like I can swap in a 2.5 mobile HD with some effort.  My main concerns are that if I try this with my old 10Gig cartridge will I be risking in any way my entire system or the 60Gig cartridge?  And other than a 2.5 mobile drive are there any other hardware requirements or recommendations?  Thanks in advance.

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 07:51:38 am »
You only need to use 1 DMS - and the whole procedure is safe as long as you do not manually play around with partitions on your disks.

The PhatBox has it's own in-built protection from flash upload failure, and if things appear to go wrong there are plenty of experienced guys here available to help you.  The DMS tools backs up the all important first MB of disk that have caused people to run into issues a long time ago.

If you look in the right places, 250GB drives are available - and a workaround is available for hacking PhatNoise MM to allow you to use those drives if it complains.  There are potential 'write' issues, which some people have gotten round by tweaking Windows drive properties - and others have chosen to use PhatHack Media Manager which is my own replacement for PhatNoise Media Manager. (assuming you are running Windows)

Essentially the rule is to replace your existing disks with any 2.5" PATA (IDE) 5400RPM drive.  You may be able to use 7200RPM, although there may be some heat related issues usin these.

I have never ever run into any problems hacking a Keg - and I've done a few now (710 and 910 variants)
You'll be absolutely fine :)
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline audi-4-life

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 01:59:55 am »
ok, so I've been working on this all day and I am stuck....

I followed the directions to the tee and my drive is setup properly however on my phatnoise music keg it just blinks rapidly for about 10 minutes, then seems to reboot and the gleen light blinks fast again for another 10 minutes. I keeps on doing this none stop as if it's stuck in an endless cycle. I am unable to select the changer on the head unit as well.

I originally had a 20gb drive and replaced it with a 60gb. In desperate attempts, I placed the old drive back in the cartridge and performed the patchclean.bat file hoping to revert back to my original drive but the keg does the same thing. blinks forever, reboots, and starts blinking forever again. I let this cycle happen 10 times before I unplugged the cable.

Please help!

Offline audi-4-life

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 08:56:37 pm »
day two.... I restarted the phathack process. I placed all my backed up files back on phtsys and reran the hack tool. It successfully updated the OEM drive and I placed the drive back into the phatbox. same thing. It's almost as if the phatbox is not using the drive because it performs the same recycling ( reboots ) wether the drive is in there or not.

I've had to unplug the cable because I have a Audi and the power is always on for the system. So in order not to possibly drain the battery I unplugged it and will await further instructions from this forum.

Questions.... Is this because I did a firmware update or the phathack? While doing the original phathack process ( the very first one ), the system started the update, rebooted on my a few times and i changed the changer controls to keep letting the hack run. At the last step, I heard a series of beeps or tones... I waited 10-15 minutes and though, ok, the process was done. I went to my trunk and the phatbox already had the fast blinking light. I though, O'poop, I should turn the sterio back on in case this is not done. By the time I got to the sterio, it no longer was able to change to the phatbox. So I waited to the blinking to stop, which it did after 10 minutes or so. I pulled out the drive and thought maybe it is waiting for the second portion of the update so I continued the process. It wasn'y until I got in my house did the system tell me the upgrade was not completed. I looked at the bootlog file and it showed a few completed boots but the last one was a failure. This is basically where I have left off and cannot get any resolution despite the thousands of forums I came across. This site, an Audi website, a few others.... alll show only the successful implementations and a few workable issues but none that really explain my issue ( well one did but the guy said he lets it flash busy and reboot 4 times and the problem went away.... Wel, For giggles I let it run all night long. Must have been 60 re-attempts. Still a no-go.

Please someone help me. I love this system and cannot bare to think that tomorrow I will drive to work for the first time in 3 years without my music keg :(

Thank you all!

Kevin

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2009, 06:27:27 am »
Hi Kevin,

Sorry we weren't around on IRC to help answer your questions - I personally am only there during the week 7am until 4pm GMT.
From what you've said, it sounds like you tried to apply the Hack and a firmware update at the same time?

If so, this is where your problem lies.  You can't do both at the same time.  Also Patchclean.bat is not meant to be used for the DMS tools version of the hack.... but by the same token you haven't mentioned how you tried to apply the hack.

My recommendation to you is this, on the assumption you can lose all the media on one of your OEM cartridges:

1. Run the DMS tools, and switch to DMS tools mode
2. Select your DMS cartridge, and select version 13.01 of the Kenwood firmware (assuming you are running a Kenwood Head Unit, if not then select the appropriate firmware)
3. Ensure the options 'Install non-hacked firmware' and 'reflash box' are checked
4. Click on the button 'DMS Repair (FULL)

This will restore your DMS, formatting both the PHTSYS and PHTDTA partitions and installing the OEM firmware on the disk - marking it as requiring a box update.  I forget if it installs a playlist on there, so once the DMS tools has finished it's repair, drop into PhatNoise MM and create a single playlist, with a single track in it if one doesn't already exist.

Pop the DMS in the car (turn the engine over so you don't need to worry about the battery) and let the box do it's 15 minute update.
Once it's rebooted, verify the box is back to working order.  Don't worry if ithe HU suddenly loses the Keg and displays just 'AUX EXT'.  That's pretty typical.  Power down the Keg, ensuring both lights are out.  Disconnect the Keg, at the Keg end leave it for a few minutes and then re-connect it.  If you have to do this a few times, that would be pretty typical too.

Once you have gotten this far, and things are working again, then and only then should you try and apply the hack.  Again, use the DMS Tools to apply the patch.
Once the patch is applied, drop the DMS back into the Keg and let it do it's work.

You should find that when it starts up, you'll hear the customized 'PhatHack' startup sound, a nice long voice prompt telling you the hack is about to apply and then the hack will run fairly promptly. The patch has successfully applied when you hear a DIFFERENT voice prompt telling you 'Your PhatBox is now unlocked'.

When this is done, then if you need to use your original DMS again, drop it back in to the cradle and run the DMS Tools again, and re-run the Hack process.  This will then verify the patch completed, and remove the hack files from the DMS.  At this point you might want to put AAC and VIOT on the DMS.  To do this, do the following:

1. Run the DMS tools, and switch to DMS tools mode
2. Select your DMS cartridge, and select version 13.01 of the Kenwood firmware (assuming you are running a Kenwood Head Unit, if not then select the appropriate firmware)
3. Ensure the options 'Install hacked firmware' is checked and 'reflash box' is UNCHECKED
4. Ensure the options 'Install AAC' and 'Install VIOT' are checked
5. Click on the button 'Update firmware' OR for absolute safety 'Repair DMS (PHTSYS)'

The latter option will re-format PHTSYS and re-apply the firmware thus ensuring any traces of the hack are completely removed.  Again, if necessary apply a single playlist with a single track to the DMS using your favourite management software... and then pop the DMS back in the Keg and start her up.  Once you've verified it's all working nicely - then it's time to move on, and pop all your music back on, and continue life where you left off.
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 07:55:03 pm »
Thanks VorTechS I will get a drive and get to work on it immediately!  I am SO happy with my system and would love to expand to more than 60Gigs.  I am fairly good with hardware and software so I shouldn't run into too much trouble. I will go down to Fry's and get one now.  Any other "must have" mods on this site that I might be missing?  I have had the Music Keg for years now and in fact I had a friend in my car club who knew some of the guys who developed the system and was beta testing it.  He said they were a bunch of engineering grad school students from CA who were just looking for a better solution.  I got one as soon as I could find one.  I will get back with my results once I have made the switch. I am especially happy that I happen to have this old extra 10Gig cartridge to "experiment" with and not worry about my main 60Gig

Offline audi-4-life

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 01:41:21 am »
SWEET! I will try this tonight as soon as I get home. My only concern is, I don't think the hack went all the way through the first time. When I use the DMS Tools and go to the DMS tools mode, everything is greyed out. I'm assuming it's because the hack was not applied successfully. I read this somewhere that the hack has to be completed before running the tools mode. Is there a way to trick the DMS Tools into thinking the hack was done so I can get to this area?

I first ran the phathack from the dnstools.zip file. Things seems to go well there initially. It wasn't until I ran into problems did I search around more and more and came across the windows installer version ( which btw is very awesome and much obviously easier than CLI ).

I really want to thank you for responding. I was in fear this project was outdated and none of the masters at this hack were still around to check it daily, weekly, or ever again :)

I'll see how far I can get on using the DMS tools but if my memory serves me correctly, it was unavailable...

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 05:34:37 am »
Any other "must have" mods on this site that I might be missing? 

Nope, I think the DMS tools gives you everything that's available now.

Quote
I have had the Music Keg for years now and in fact I had a friend in my car club who knew some of the guys who developed the system and was beta testing it.  He said they were a bunch of engineering grad school students from CA who were just looking for a better solution.  I got one as soon as I could find one. 
If this friend is still around, we'd love to trace some of those guys to get some answers to some questions we have ;)

Quote
I will get back with my results once I have made the switch. I am especially happy that I happen to have this old extra 10Gig cartridge to "experiment" with and not worry about my main 60Gig

Good luck, and let us know if you run into any problems..!

SWEET! I will try this tonight as soon as I get home. My only concern is, I don't think the hack went all the way through the first time.
As far as I know, this has no relevance - the hack will just re-run skipping anything it's aleady done.

Quote
When I use the DMS Tools and go to the DMS tools mode, everything is greyed out. I'm assuming it's because the hack was not applied successfully. I read this somewhere that the hack has to be completed before running the tools mode. Is there a way to trick the DMS Tools into thinking the hack was done so I can get to this area?

A lot of people have claimed the DMS tools do this.  In actuality it turns out that they didn't select the DMS or the firmware version to apply to the DMS.  The tools needs both before the buttons become enabled.

Quote
I really want to thank you for responding. I was in fear this project was outdated and none of the masters at this hack were still around to check it daily, weekly, or ever again :)

I'll see how far I can get on using the DMS tools but if my memory serves me correctly, it was unavailable...

No problem, I hope everything frrom this point on goes smoothly for you!
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline audi-4-life

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 07:09:26 am »
Ahh. At last... I found my problem with using the DMS replair tools. I was using my spare laptop and wasn't hooking up the network cable to get internet acess. Once I figured that out... alll the fields became available.

All better now !!

I'm going to finish this DMS full repair and go to the car and see what happens :)

Let you know how it went in a few.

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 01:01:02 am »
Quote
If this friend is still around, we'd love to trace some of those guys to get some answers to some questions we have Wink

I am trying to find our old newsgroup site (was for DSMs) but this was over five years ago before I moved from Texas.  I will let you know if I can locate him. I just got home with the new HD (250GIG, they had bigger but wasn't sure if it would work) and am about to try the procedure.  I downloaded the software and ran the wizard on my old drive.  The next step is to put it into the box in the truck.  Will this affect my other factory 60Gig cartridge at all?  If not I will go ahead and run it. Thanks

Just to be crystal clear I take my original DMS factory 10 Gig cartridge put in the cradle.  Run the wizard (done all this so far and I really hope I didn't mess anything up because after doing that read some old manual ways of doing it that say don't do anything to the original cart).

Then I put it in the box in my truck?  Then I do the physical swap?  I just want to be absolutely clear so I don't screw anything up. I am not touching my current 60Gig drive (that is full).

What I am not really clear on is how does this change the Linux box in my truck?  Will it affect my other cart or will I need to run the wizard on the other cart? I understand backing up and copying the files in the boot sector to make the box recognize the cartridge but I don't understand what this has to do with the box itself (aka Music Keg).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 01:21:46 am by josefgabriel »

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 05:32:57 am »
The DMS is used as a transport to unlock the box via a flash exploit, through DMS playlists.  Assuming both boxes are running the same firmware simply put the same DMS into both boxes to run the hack.

Once you are done, you can swap out the drive.  You don't need to backup the boot partition, the DMS tools does this for you when you apply the hack.
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 05:37:55 am »
Thanks. I ran the wizard and put it in my car. At first I didn't think it worked because it gave the introduction said "attempting hack" and then I got the welcome to Phatnoise .wav file.  But I waited the 10 minutes went back inside and started the wizard again. I got a message that it was successful so I swapped out the hard drive. It was a perfect fit.  The documentation varies a little bit from what I am seeing in the app. but I am getting a message that it is formatting the DMS now when I told it to create new DMS. I did get an error the first time I tried to select the firmware but restarted the app and now it worked fine.  I selected the latest Kenwood version and picked the VOIT plugin (which I have the disk for from Phatnoise and also the ATT Naturally speaking high quality voice of Audrey.  I am not sure if I should have already selected to update the firmware or if I should do that once its finished formatting. The harware swap went perfectly though so I am pretty happy with that.  I think I am in the home stretch.

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 05:56:06 am »
Well the format finished and said my DMS was ready. So I started Phatnoise Media Manager and at first it saw the drive with 239 Gigs free.  Then it had and "unknown error while accessing H:\CurrentSetup.xml I will quit the app and there is still drive activity.  I will use the "device eject" function from the program menu.  First time it didn't see anything to eject second time it did. I will restart Media Manager and I can see it initializing the DMS. Then the same error occurs again. :(

Running the repair utility now.  It said something about only being able to use the cartridge in a hacked DMS but I figure that is what I am doing.  Hopefully the unmodified other cartridge will still run.

I ran the repair and started Media manager again.  It again saw the drive but then I got the error "pnrdbrw" and in the system tray I got an error something about a delayed write error.  The bubble disappeared before I got a chance to see it fully.

I then okayed out of the first error and got another error "couldn't save the SQL database to the DMS. Please clear diskspace and try again".

After all of this I could see the drive and I tried dragging one album over and saving and ejecting.  I got more errors "Cannot Copy 1:Cannot find the specified file." then I get the same unable to opy the SQL database to the DMS file again.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 06:35:01 am by josefgabriel »

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 06:36:31 am »
There are issues with PhatNoise Media Manager and larger drives.  Have a hunt round, there's a post somewhere about modifying the drive properties to avoid the delayed write failure.
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 07:28:28 pm »
Okay I followed the steps here http://forum.phathack.com/index.php/topic,1949.msg12069.html#msg12069 and it seems (for now at least) to alleviated the issue. 

I am going to load a bunch more music on it now and then use PhatVoice to reencode for the higher bitrate samples of Audrey.  One minor thing, I used to have a woman announcing the things like "the current genre is" "the current album is" and now it is a man.  Is there a directory I can go into off of my other drive (the 60gig one) and just replace those files?

Thanks for all of your help.  It will take a day or two to see how stable it is but have been wanting a larger DMS for a while so it can keep up with my ever growing library.

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 06:36:50 am »
Have a look at the PHTSYS\TTS directory, that contains all of the static prompts.
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)

Offline josefgabriel

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 11:28:42 pm »
Okay well so far the drive is holding up. I have to pay extra attention to make sure I have Media Manager running but it seems to be working okay. It seems usually I will need to cycle through ejecting the device and reinserting it a time or two before it works though.  I checked the TTS directory on my other factory drive and it is also a man's voice. I don't know how this got changed but all I know is until I started this it was a woman's voice. It is a minor detail I can live with but I would like to still switch that if possible.  I wasn't able to locate the .wav files anywhere else I don't imagine anything would stop me from making my own though. :)

Offline VorTechS

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Re: Help getting started with swapping HDs
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2009, 09:12:59 am »
PhatHack Media Manager has a utility built-in to replace the re-build TTS prompts if that' of any use.  You do need to make sure you have set, and saved, the appropriate configuration for the DMS before you use it though... ;)
Kenwood KDC-W7031 | Kenwood KHD-CX910 | 250GB DMS | PhatHack Media Manager v1.1.4 (Alpha) | VIOT

Catch me weekdays 8am-4pm GMT on IRC @ irc.freenode.net on channel #phathack (aka the chat link!!)